Proving the Curl Identity for a Simple Curl Equation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the curl identity for a specific curl equation involving vector calculus, particularly focusing on the manipulation of curl operations and properties of Levi-Civita symbols.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the curl of a product involving a scalar and a gradient, expressing concerns about a term that should be zero but is unclear. Some participants explore properties of the Levi-Civita symbol and the symmetry of second derivatives to clarify the cancellation of terms. Others suggest alternative formulations of the curl identity and discuss implications when the vector involved is a gradient.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the mathematical properties involved, with some providing insights into the cancellation of terms and others proposing alternative approaches. There is no explicit consensus yet, but the discussion is progressing with valuable contributions that may lead to a clearer understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of vector calculus identities and the implications of index notation, with some questioning the assumptions made about the terms involved in the curl operation.

Hiero
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Homework Statement
Simplify ##\nabla \times ( a\nabla b)##
Relevant Equations
##\nabla\times \vec V = \epsilon_{ijk}\frac{\partial V_k}{\partial x_j}\hat e_i##
##\nabla s = \frac{\partial s}{\partial x_i}\hat e_i##
Attempt:

$$\nabla \times ( a\nabla b) = \epsilon_{ijk}\frac{\partial}{\partial x_j}(a\frac{\partial b}{\partial x_k})\hat e_i$$ $$ = \epsilon_{ijk}\big(\frac{\partial a}{\partial x_j}\frac{\partial b}{\partial x_k}+a\frac{\partial b}{\partial x_j\partial x_k}\big)\hat e_i$$ $$= \nabla a \times \nabla b + \text{(final term)}$$

That “final term” (a triple sum) should be the zero vector, but I cannot see how. Maybe I messed up elsewhere.

Thanks.
 
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Well, \epsilon_{ijk} = -\epsilon_{ikj} but \partial_j\partial_kb = \partial_k\partial_jb so <br /> \epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kb = -\epsilon_{ikj}\partial_k\partial_jb. But j and k are dummy indices, so we can relabel them on the right hand side ...
 
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pasmith said:
Well, \epsilon_{ijk} = -\epsilon_{ikj} but \partial_j\partial_kb = \partial_k\partial_jb so <br /> \epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kb = -\epsilon_{ikj}\partial_k\partial_jb. But j and k are dummy indices, so we can relabel them on the right hand side ...
That’s a very nice way to show it is zero. The last step (after relabeling) is that ##[x=-x] \implies [x=0]##
I have to admit it seems magical to use this property ignoring the invisible nested summation.

Basically though, each component cancels out in pairs by virtue of the two properties you mentioned:
pasmith said:
Well, \epsilon_{ijk} = -\epsilon_{ikj} but \partial_j\partial_kb = \partial_k\partial_jb
 
Alternatively, \nabla \times (a\mathbf{v}) = (\nabla a) \times \mathbf{v} + a \nabla \times \mathbf{v} and if \mathbf{v} is a gradient then its curl is zero (which follows from the observation in my earlier post).
 

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