Quick question, phasors and impedance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of phasors and impedance in the context of the formula for complex power, specifically addressing the treatment of the complex conjugate of the current phasor in the equation S=VI*.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the removal of the minus sign from the angle of the current phasor in the equation S=0.5*V*I, suggesting it may be a typo.
  • Another participant asserts that the minus sign is not a typo, explaining that the current phasor I is complex conjugated, which involves changing the sign of the angle.
  • A subsequent post reiterates the explanation about the complex conjugate and asks whether the sign flip is always necessary when using S=VI.
  • One participant clarifies that the factor of one-half is used when peak values of voltage and current are employed.
  • Another participant elaborates on the formula S = 0.5 * V_s * I_s*, emphasizing the importance of understanding the notation for complex conjugates and the implications for phase changes in the complex plane.
  • There is a suggestion that memorizing rules for sign changes may not be as important as understanding the underlying formula and notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of flipping the sign and the interpretation of the formula, indicating that there is no consensus on whether the sign change is a rule or a consequence of the formula's structure.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion regarding notation for complex conjugates and the application of phasor representation in electrical engineering versus mathematics.

clurt
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Please see attached

On line S=0.5*V*I why is the minus sign removed from in front of the "I" angle. 25.38 specifically. Could is be a typo?

http://imgur.com/eUmEovo
 
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It's not a typo. ##I## is complex conjugated, hence the star ##I^*##. When you complex conjugate a phasor, you change the sign of the angle.
 
ZetaOfThree said:
It's not a typo. ##I## is complex conjugated, hence the star ##I^*##. When you complex conjugate a phasor, you change the sign of the angle.
Do you always flip the minus sign when when using S=VI? And what about the half in front, all the time too?
 
Half in the front when you use peak values of V and I
 
clurt said:
Do you always flip the minus sign when when using S=VI?
if the formula is $$S = \frac{1}{2} \cdot V_s \cdot I^*_s $$ so you take ##I_s^*## which is the complex conjugate of ##I_s##. Since it's written in a modulus and phase format, you just have to invert the sign of the phase of ##I## to obtain it (draw both numbers in the complex plane and it's evident that the modulus stays the same but the phase changes).
I don't think you should memorize rules of flipping that sign or not, just read the formula (it's S = VI*, not S = VI). If you weren't able to see why the minus sign changed given the formula, then you either don't know the notation used here for the complex conjugate (in mathematics classes I've usually seen it written as ##\overline{I}##, but it's written the other way in engineering) or you need to study complex numbers.
 

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