Quickest way to do this calculation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a complex equation involving rational expressions and determining the value of x. The original poster seeks a method to find x without resorting to brute-force multiplication of terms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various methods for simplifying the equation, with some suggesting that equating denominators may not yield useful results. Questions arise about the implications of equal numerators and the conditions under which x can be determined.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing different perspectives on the problem. Some have provided insights into the implications of the equation's structure, while others express confusion about the reasoning involved in equating terms. There is no explicit consensus on a single method, but several lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential mistakes in calculations and question the validity of certain steps taken in the problem-solving process. There is also mention of the need to verify solutions by substituting values back into the original equation.

Manasan3010
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Homework Statement
Find value of ##x##
Relevant Equations
-
1563670601077.png

## \frac{-3x^4}{7}+x=\frac{-3x^4}{7}+10 \\x=10##

I solved the equation and got x=10, My question is how can I solve for x without brute-force method( Multiply all terms by (x-13)(x-7)(x-14)(x-6) and solving for x)
 
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I can't see any other method.
 
\begin{align*}
\dfrac{5x-64}{x-13}+\dfrac{x-6}{x-7}&=\dfrac{4x-55}{x-14}+\dfrac{2x-11}{x-6}\\
\dfrac{5(x-13)+1}{x-13}+\dfrac{x-7+1}{x-7}&=\dfrac{4(x-14)+1}{x-14}+\dfrac{2(x-6)+1}{x-6}\\
5 + \dfrac{1}{x-13} + 1 + \dfrac{1}{x-7}&=4+\dfrac{1}{x-14}+2+\dfrac{1}{x-6}\\
\dfrac{1}{x-13} + \dfrac{1}{x-7}&=\dfrac{1}{x-14}+\dfrac{1}{x-6}\\
&\text{ etc. }
\end{align*}
looks a lot easier!
 
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Continuing with:
##
\dfrac{1}{x-13} + \dfrac{1}{x-7}=\dfrac{1}{x-14}+\dfrac{1}{x-6}
##
From there ...

##\dfrac{x-7 + x-13}{(x-13)(x-7)}=\dfrac{x-6 + x-14}{(x-14)(x-6)}##

Some simplifying gives

##\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-13)(x-7)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-14)(x-6)}##

Equate the denominators & solve for ##x##.
 
From
$$
\dfrac{2(x-10)}{p(x)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{q(x)} \quad (p\neq q \in \mathbb{R}[x])
$$
is nothing left to solve, it is already written there.
 
fresh_42 said:
From
$$
\dfrac{2(x-10)}{p(x)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{q(x)} \quad (p\neq q \in \mathbb{R}[x])
$$
is nothing left to solve, it is already written there.
Can you please elaborate on how the numerators of the fractions are being equalled.
Even if the numerators are equal, equation would become
2x-10 = 2x-10
x=x(How do I find the value of x from this)
I also want to know what is meant by## \quad (p\neq q \in \mathbb{R}[x]) ## in words.
 
SammyS said:
Some simplifying gives

##\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-13)(x-7)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-14)(x-6)}##

Equate the denominators & solve for ##x##.
That equation simplifies to 91 = 84 so (1) clearly you've made a mistake somewhere, and (2) it can't be used to find x since the x's all drop out and just leave 91 = 84. Not very useful.
 
phinds said:
That equation simplifies to 91 = 84 so (1) clearly you've made a mistake somewhere, and (2) it can't be used to find x since the x's all drop out and just leave 91 = 84. Not very useful.
##\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-13)(x-7)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-14)(x-6)} ##
Following @fresh 42's hint, if x=10 both sides of the equation are zero, independently of the denominators. They need not be equal. So the solution is x=10
 
ehild said:
##\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-13)(x-7)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{(x-14)(x-6)} ##
Following @fresh 42's hint, if x=10 both sides of the equation are zero, independently of the denominators. They need not be equal. So the solution is x=10

But How do I mathematically show that 10 is a possible solution for x?
In test can I say that If you plug 10 for x, Equation is veracious so 10 is a possible solution?
 
  • #10
Manasan3010 said:
Equation is veracious so 10 is a possible solution?
And, as per fresh's post #5, there are no others.

Alternatively, rewrite the last expression in post #3 as$$\frac 1{x-7}-\frac 1{x-6}=\frac 1{x-14}-\frac 1{x-13}$$and put each side over a common denominator. The result is one over a quadratic in both cases, and the result follows simply.
 
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  • #11
Manasan3010 said:
But How do I mathematically show that 10 is a possible solution for x?
In test can I say that If you plug 10 for x, Equation is veracious so 10 is a possible solution?
##\dfrac{a(x)}{p(x)}=\dfrac{a(x)}{q(x)} \Longleftrightarrow a(x)(q(x)-q(x))=0 \Longleftrightarrow a(x)=0 \text{ or }p(x)=q(x)##
As we can rule out ##p=q## we are left with ##a(x)=2(x-10)=0## and it can be seen that ##x=10## is the only way for ##a(x)## to be zero.

So all steps which are missing in post #3 can actually be done in mind.
 
Last edited:
  • #12
I have a bad habit of writing up a post, previewing and editing until most typos are fixed, then when it's ready to go, I neglect clicking to post it. :headbang:

The following is part of a post I wrote up yesterday evening, shortly after @phinds (that big white dog could pass for a polar bear) posted that enlightening observation.
phinds said:
That equation simplifies to 91 = 84 so (1) clearly you've made a mistake somewhere, and (2) it can't be used to find x since the x's all drop out and just leave 91 = 84. Not very useful.
Oh my! Yes, of course.

... And since you point out that the denominator on the left is 7 units greater than the denominator on the right (for all values of ##x##), the only solution possible is for the numerators to be zero.
 
  • #13
SammyS said:
... And since you point out that the denominator on the left is 7 units greater than the denominator on the right (for all values of ##x##), the only solution possible is for the numerators to be zero.
Good point. That's a point of view I've never had to take before so basically rejected it. Not too bright sometimes, but I mean, come on ... I'm just a dog after all :smile:
 
  • #14
fresh_42 said:
From
$$
\dfrac{2(x-10)}{p(x)}=\dfrac{2(x-10)}{q(x)} \quad (p\neq q \in \mathbb{R}[x])
$$
is nothing left to solve, it is already written there.
Manasan3010 said:
Even if the numerators are equal, equation would become
2x-10 = 2x-10
@Manasan3010, did you mean "even if the denominators are equal..."
If so, the numerators are ##2(x - 10) = 2x - 20 \ne 2x - 10##
 
  • #15
Manasan3010 said:
But How do I mathematically show that 10 is a possible solution for x?
In test can I say that If you plug 10 for x, Equation is veracious so 10 is a possible solution?
Yes. After all those manipulations of equations, it is always good to show that your answer satisfies the original equations. Then you should ask yourself if there are additional solutions. If x is not 10 and the numerators in the last equation of post #4 are equal but not zero, then the denominators must be equal for some value of x other than 10. But @phinds pointed out in post #7 that setting the denominators equal leads to 91=84, so that is not possible.
 
  • #16
In my judgment, the method recommended by @Ibix in post #10 is the clearcut winner.
 
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