Range and Image of a Transformation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on determining whether a vector $\textbf{b}$ is in the range of a linear transformation defined by a matrix $A$. Participants explore different methods for verifying this, including inspection and matrix row reduction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that $\textbf{b}$ is in the range of the transformation by observing that it can be expressed as a sum of specific columns of $A$.
  • Another participant questions the correctness of the initial claim based on a potential typo in the matrix $A$, specifically regarding the element in row 3, column 2, which could affect the validity of the solution.
  • A different participant suggests an alternative method involving creating an augmented matrix and reducing it to echelon form to check for consistency, implying this method could be necessary if the initial approach fails.
  • One participant expresses that the alternative method is clever and acknowledges its effectiveness in determining the range.
  • Another participant asserts that their method is more efficient for the given problem, suggesting a preference for direct inspection over row reduction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the validity of the initial solution and the efficiency of various methods. There is no consensus on which method is superior or whether the initial claim about $\textbf{b}$ being in the range is definitively correct.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the specific elements of matrix $A$, which could impact the conclusions drawn about the range of the transformation. Additionally, the discussion reflects varying assumptions about the methods used to determine the range.

bwpbruce
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$\textbf{Problem}$

Let $\textbf{b} = \begin{bmatrix}\begin{array}{r} 8 \\ 7 \\ 5 \\ -3 \end{array}\end{bmatrix}$ and let $A = \begin{bmatrix} 2 & 3 & 5 & - 5 \\ -7 & 7 & 0 & 0 \\ -3 & 4 & 1 & 3 \\ -9 & 3 & -6 & -4 \end{bmatrix}$

Is $\textbf{b}$ in the range of the transformation $\textbf{x} \mapsto A\textbf{x}$. If so, find an $\textbf{x}$ whose image under the transformation is $\textbf{b}$.$\textbf{My Solution}$
By inspection, notice that the sum of columns $\textbf{a}_2$ and $\textbf{a}_3$ is $\textbf{b}$.

In other words: \begin{align*}\begin{bmatrix} 3 \\ 7 \\ 4 \\ 3 \end{bmatrix} + \begin{bmatrix} 5 \\ 0 \\ 1 \\ -6 \end{bmatrix} &= \begin{bmatrix} 3 + 5 \\ 7 + 0 \\ 4 + 1 \\ 3 - 6 \end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix} 8 \\ 7 \\ 5 \\ -3 \end{bmatrix} \end{align*}
So $\textbf{b}$ is in the range of $T$.
Also by inspection, it is obvious that for $A\textbf{(x)} = \textbf{b}$, $\textbf{x} = \begin{bmatrix} 0 \\ 1 \\ 1 \\ 0 \end{bmatrix}$.

Is my approach to this acceptable?
 
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Is the element of $A$ in row 3, column 2 equal to $-4$ or $4$? If it is $-4$, then $\mathbf{a}_2+\mathbf{a}_3\ne\mathbf{b}$.

If that element is 4, then your solution is correct, but what would you do if you couldn't guess an answer?
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Is the element of $A$ in row 3, column 2 equal to $-4$ or $4$? If it is $-4$, then $\mathbf{a}_2+\mathbf{a}_3\ne\mathbf{b}$.

If that element is 4, then your solution is correct, but what would you do if you couldn't guess an answer?

You're good at finding typos. What do you mean by if you $\textbf{couldn't}$ guess an answer? I think I know this "other way" you're referring to. But I'm just saying... Show me a situation where $\textbf{b}$ is in the range but one is forced to use the alternative method rather than the method I posted above.
 
Let $A$ be the same and $\mathbf{b}=\begin{bmatrix}\dfrac{151}{6}\\ -21\\ -\dfrac{37}{2}\\ -\dfrac{50}{3}\end{bmatrix}$. Is $\mathbf{b}$ in the range of $\mathbf{x}\mapsto A\mathbf{x}$?
 
That's clever. The alternative method is to create a matrix of the form $\begin{bmatrix}A & \textbf{b} \end{bmatrix}$ then simplify to reduced echelon form. If the system is consistent then $\textbf{b}$ is in the range of $\textbf{x} \mapsto A\textbf{x}$.
 
Yes.
 
Well, for the given problem, my method was more efficient.
 

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