Relation of ionisation voltage vs. pressure for hydrogen

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between ionization voltage and pressure for hydrogen gas contained in a metallic chamber connected to a high positive voltage source. Participants explore whether the voltage required to ionize hydrogen molecules varies with changes in pressure or density while keeping the mass constant.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the energy required to remove electrons from hydrogen atoms is primarily dependent on the charge of the nucleus, suggesting that pressure may not significantly affect ionization voltage.
  • Others argue that the presence of a high positive charge in the chamber does not guarantee ionization, as there may be no potential difference within a hollow conductor filled with neutral hydrogen.
  • A later reply questions the feasibility of ionizing hydrogen if the chamber is filled with neutral gas, noting that any ions produced would likely neutralize upon contact with the chamber walls.
  • Some participants mention the concept of the Paschen Curve, which relates to ionization in gases under varying pressure and electric field conditions, although its direct relevance to the scenario described is debated.
  • There are discussions about the calculations needed to estimate the voltage required for complete ionization, with references to using formulas like Q=CV and considerations of the number of atoms and their charge.
  • Concerns are raised about the practical challenges of maintaining a beam of hydrogen ions and the implications of having no electrons available to stabilize the system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the voltage necessary for ionization varies with pressure. Multiple competing views remain regarding the effects of pressure and the conditions under which ionization occurs.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the behavior of gases under electric fields, the role of the chamber's walls in ionization, and the scaling of molecular interactions to the described system. The discussion also highlights the complexity of calculating the necessary voltage and charge for ionization.

  • #31
It surely will.
 
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  • #32
T C said:
As per your explanation, if a 1 meter long hollow conducting box has just 2 Coulomb of charge, the force created by the Coulomb force will rip it up. And, so far, what math you have done other than calculating the force between two Coulomb charges?
Was this addressed to me? No more calculations are necessary to demonstrate the huge forces involved.
Are you still arguing against the fact that the energy involved is not n times the energy of ionisation of a single atom, but the sum of all the potentials? The last 30 posts have ben wasted if you are.
 

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