Relationship between velocity, acceleration, and a circle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between velocity, acceleration, and circular motion, specifically analyzing the motion of an object traveling around a circle with a radius of 2 meters. Participants explore the mathematical relationships and equations governing this motion, including the implications of using constant acceleration in a non-linear context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the perimeter of a circle and provides equations for acceleration and distance traveled while accelerating, applying them to a circular motion scenario.
  • Another participant challenges the calculation of change in velocity (Δv), asserting that it was incorrectly computed and should be positive in both components.
  • A different participant points out that the equation for distance traveled under acceleration can only be used if acceleration is constant, indicating a misunderstanding in the application of the formula.
  • One participant acknowledges the assumption of constant acceleration and reflects on how this assumption affects their calculations.
  • Several participants note that the actual component numbers reveal significant discrepancies when assuming constant acceleration for circular motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the calculations of change in velocity and the application of kinematic equations. There is no consensus on the correct approach to modeling the motion, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their assumptions about acceleration being constant in a circular motion context, which complicates the application of standard kinematic equations. The discussion also reflects on the need for careful consideration of the nature of motion when applying mathematical models.

stvrbbns
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The perimeter of a circle is 2πR (R=radius). [ref]
Acceleration = Δv/Δt (v=velocity, t=time). [ref]
Motion mathematics can always be reduced to multiple independent one-dimensional motions. [ref]
The distance an object travels while accelerating = vit + at2/2 (a=acceleration, vi=initial velocity). [ref]
  1. If a circle centered at (0,0) has a radius of 2m, then it has a diameter of 4m and a perimeter of 4π m.
  2. If an object is moving clockwise around this circle once every 4 seconds, then that object has a speed of 1π m/s.
  3. At the top of the circle, the object has an (x,y) velocity of (π,0); let this be t0.
  4. At the right of the circle, the object has an (x,y) velocity of (0,-π); let this be t1.
  5. Δt = t1-t0 = 1 second.
  6. Δv = v1-v0 = (π,0) - (0,-π) = (-π,-π).
  7. a = (-π,-π) / second (for that particular time interval).
  8. So displacement on the X-axis = π m/s * 1 s + ( (-π m/s2) * (1s)2 / 2 ) = π m + -π/2 m = π/2 ...
But the object traveling the perimeter of the 2m-radius circle every 4 seconds should be at (2,0) 1 second after (0,2). What am I doing wrong - displacement, acceleration, or something else/more?

Thanks.

(other references)
- velocity calculator
- kinematic equations
 
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Δv = v1-v0 = (π,0) - (0,-π) = (-π,-π).
This is wrong.
Δv= (π,π). By basic arithmetic, your pies are positive. 0 - - π = π, and π - 0 = π
 
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stvrbbns said:
8. So displacement on the X-axis = π m/s * 1 s + ( (-π m/s2) * (1s)2 / 2 ) = π m + -π/2 m = π/2
You can only use the equation ## s = ut + \frac 12 a t^2 ## when acceleration is constant.
 
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Karmaslap said:
Δv = v1-v0 = (π,0) - (0,-π) = (-π,-π).
This is wrong.
Δv= (π,π). By basic arithmetic, your pies are positive. 0 - - π = π, and π - 0 = π
Thanks for catching that. I think that it should then be:
Δv = v1-v0 = (0,-π) - (π,0) = (-π,-π)
and that I had the v0 and v1 incorrectly switched; the outcome is correctly still (-π,-π).
 
MrAnchovy said:
You can only use the equation ## s = ut + \frac 12 a t^2 ## when acceleration is constant.
Ah, I was trying to take the average acceleration and treat it as constant.
 
Plots of the actual component numbers show just how off an assumption of constant acceleration for each component is for this problem.

PsIq8v2.png
 
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spamanon said:
Plots of the actual component numbers show just how off an assumption of constant acceleration for each component is for this problem.
Thank you very much! That relationship between position, velocity, and acceleration exposes quite a bit of my problem.

[ref] For anyone reading this post later, acceleration is the derivative of velocity and velocity is the derivative of position. The graphs posted by @spamanon show all 3 of those for my circle (red position, blue velocity, black acceleration).
 

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