Resonance of HCO3^- and sigma/pi bonds

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the resonance structures of the bicarbonate ion (HCO3^-), focusing on the identification of equivalent resonance forms and the nature of sigma and pi bonds within these structures. Participants are exploring concepts from first-year university chemistry, particularly the rules governing resonance structures.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents two structures for HCO3^- and asks if they are equivalent resonance forms, noting the arrangement of electrons and bonds.
  • Another participant points out that the structures presented are not true resonance forms, as they involve rotating the molecule rather than moving electrons.
  • There is a suggestion to maintain the orientation of the molecule in resonance structures, emphasizing that the hydrogen must remain on the same oxygen.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the requirements for listing resonance structures, indicating that they are expected to identify equivalent forms.
  • Further clarification is sought on whether the proposed resonance structures are indeed equivalent, with a participant acknowledging that they may not be.
  • One participant prompts another to visualize the equivalent resonance structure by suggesting a rotation of the molecule for better understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the equivalence of the proposed resonance structures, with some asserting that the structures are not equivalent while others are uncertain. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct identification of resonance forms.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of clarity on the definitions of equivalent resonance structures and the specific requirements for the assignment, which may affect the understanding of the topic.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students in introductory chemistry courses, particularly those studying resonance structures and molecular bonding concepts.

lorka150
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Are two equivalent resonance forms HCO3^- like this?
... O
...//
O - C
...\
... O - H


...O - H
.../
O - C
...\\
...O


Both structures have brackets and a -.
Also, each O on the left has six dots, the O on the double bond has four, and the O on the H has four as well. Sorry about the ... I didn't know how else to 'draw' them so they would line up.

Are there four sigma and 1 pi?

Thanks.
 
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lorka150 said:
Are two equivalent resonance forms HCO3^- like this?
... O
...//
O - C
...\
... O - H


...O - H
.../
O - C
...\\
...O


Both structures have brackets and a -.
Also, each O on the left has six dots, the O on the double bond has four, and the O on the H has four as well. Sorry about the ... I didn't know how else to 'draw' them so they would line up.

Are there four sigma and 1 pi?

Thanks.
The two structures you have drawn are not resonance structures. You have simply rotated the molecule 180 degrees along the horizontal axis. Try to remember that, when drawing resonance structures, only electrons can move (not atoms).
 
Thanks Geoff... In that case, I'm quite confused.
 
lorka150 said:
Thanks Geoff... In that case, I'm quite confused.
Keep the molecule oriented the same in all resonance structures. In other words, the H must stay on the same O.

What level of chemistry is this question from? Are you required to list only major resonance structures, or all of them?
 
Thanks for the help so far, Geoff. I am only supposed to list two equivalent (I assume that might be the key word there) resonance forms.
it's from first year university chemistry - just very out of my element.

... O
...//
O - C
...\
... O - H


...O
.../
O - C
...\\
...O -H

Is that what you are indicating?
 
lorka150 said:
Thanks for the help so far, Geoff. I am only supposed to list two equivalent (I assume that might be the key word there) resonance forms.
it's from first year university chemistry - just very out of my element.

... O
...//
O - C
...\
... O - H...O
.../
O - C
...\\
...O -H

Is that what you are indicating?

Although these are resonance structures, they are certainly not equivalent.

Why do you think the double bond will shift to the O with an H attached?
 
Last edited:
lorka150 said:
Thanks for the help so far, Geoff. I am only supposed to list two equivalent (I assume that might be the key word there) resonance forms.
it's from first year university chemistry - just very out of my element.

... O
...//
O - C
...\
... O - H...O
.../
O - C
...\\
...O -H

Is that what you are indicating?

Try rotating the molecule so that the alcohol is pointing to the left.

Code:
     O
    //
H-O-C
     \
      O

Give the equivalent resonance structure of the molecule. I'll assume you can see it now.
 
Last edited:

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