Reversible adiabatic expansion proof

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the relationship between pressure (P) and temperature (T) for an ideal gas undergoing a reversible adiabatic expansion. Participants explore the application of the first law of thermodynamics and the ideal gas law to derive the relationship expressed as T^(Cp,m/R)/P = constant.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to begin the proof and struggles to manipulate the equations to express temperature in the desired form.
  • Another participant suggests starting with the relationship PVγ = constant and substituting nRT/P for V.
  • A subsequent post shows an attempt to manipulate the equations, leading to the expression (nRT)γ/Pγ-1 = c, while questioning if they are on the right track.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of starting with the first law of thermodynamics, suggesting the relationship dU = nCvdT = -PdV as a starting point.
  • One participant later claims to have resolved their confusion, attributing their success to recognizing the significance of the relationship dU = Cv,mdT = -PdV and integrating it to achieve the desired result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion shows a progression of ideas, with some participants agreeing on the importance of specific thermodynamic relationships, while others express differing levels of understanding and approaches to the problem. The overall resolution of the proof remains unclear, as not all participants have confirmed the final steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various equations and relationships, but there are indications of missing assumptions and unresolved steps in the manipulation of the equations. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to navigate these complexities.

Latsabb
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Homework Statement


Prove the relationship between the pressure, P, and the temperature, T, for an ideal gas with a reversible adiabatic expansion. Base the proof on the first law of thermodynamics and the ideal gas law.

The relationship is: T^(Cp,m/R)/P = constant

Where R is the gas constant and Cp,m is the molar heat capacity.

Homework Equations


ΔU=Q-W
pV=nRT

Possibly relevant:
Wrev=-pdV
γ=Cp,m/Cv,m where γ is the heat capacity ratio.
PVγ= constant

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't even know where to start explaining what I have tried... I have been kicking around a lot of things. I can't seem to manage to manipulate things so that temperature is to the power of anything, although I have burnt a lot of time trying to turn PVγ into some relation for T to the power of some derivative of gamma. I assume since gamma has Cp,m in it, that it is going to play in, and especially since it is already a power for volume, this flagged me in that direction, but I am just going around in circles.

Any help in the right direction would be GREATLY appreciated.
 
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Latsabb said:
The relationship is: T^(Cp,m/R)/P = constant

Where R is the gas constant and Cp,m is the molar heat capacity.

Homework Equations


ΔU=Q-W
pV=nRT

Possibly relevant:
Wrev=-pdV
γ=Cp,m/Cv,m where γ is the heat capacity ratio.
PVγ= constant

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't even know where to start explaining what I have tried... I have been kicking around a lot of things. I can't seem to manage to manipulate things so that temperature is to the power of anything, although I have burnt a lot of time trying to turn PVγ into some relation for T to the power of some derivative of gamma. I assume since gamma has Cp,m in it, that it is going to play in, and especially since it is already a power for volume, this flagged me in that direction, but I am just going around in circles.
Start with PVγ= constant and substitute nRT/P for V.

AM
 
Ok, so I end up with:
P*(nRT/P)γ=c

Which I then turn into:
P*(nRT)γ/Pγ=c

And then:
(nRT)γ/Pγ-1=c

Am I on the right track? Because I have been playing around with it, and I can't seem to extract nR out, nor am I having luck manipulating the powers to what I need.
 
If you are supposed to use the first law, then you are expected to start with

##dU=nCvdT=-PdV##
 
I finally got it nailed down. Chester was correct, the missing piece here was that dU=Cv,mdT=-PdV. An integration of that, and some minor modifying of terms produced what I was after. Thank you!
 

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