Rocket Science - need confirmation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the appropriate mass for a rocket based on a thrust graph, aiming for a specific altitude of 15 meters. The problem involves concepts from dynamics and kinematics, particularly the relationship between thrust, gravity, and motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate average thrust and net force to determine the rocket's mass. Some participants question the validity of using average force and suggest a more complex approach involving numerical integration. Others express concern about the applicability of calculus in their current studies.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different methods to approach the problem. There is no explicit consensus on the best method, but various lines of reasoning are being examined, including the implications of mass loss during the burn and the feasibility of the original poster's method.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem does not specify the loss of mass during the burn, which may affect calculations. Additionally, there is a constraint regarding the original poster's current level of mathematical knowledge, as they will not be learning calculus for another two years.

Element1674
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Homework Statement


given a graph of the thrust of an engine, we need to determine what mass to make our rocket so that it goes 15m into the air. Here is the graph:
http://www.321rockets.com/content/image/26402/800/A8_thrustcurve.jpg

I just need some confirmation on if I'm doing it right.

Homework Equations



Fnet= Ft+Fg=ma


The Attempt at a Solution


Using the section of 0.0s-0.1s for refernce:
- Find the average thrust force during this time interval (my teacher talked about how later we would use impulse for this, but we haven't learned that yet, so I calculated average force using the inital force for that interval (0N) and the final force for that interval (5N). Add together and divide by two, giving me 2.5N. This means during the first 0.1s of the rocket's flight, the average thrust force acting upon it is 2.5N.
-I add this with the force of gravity to determine the net force. Net force also equals ma, so i divide that number my the mass for the acceleration value.
- Using the initial velocity (0 for this segment), the time (0.1s) and the acceleration, i use the big 5 kinematic equations to find the displacement and the final velocity. This final velocity is the initial velocity of the next segment. The displacement is D1.
- Keep finding D2,D3,..etc and add them all together, hopefully giving me a TOTAL distance of 15m. But I know that the last displacement (rocket going up but the engine is no longer thrusting) will only have a net force of mg, so i take that into consideration when calculating.


good?
 
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Anyone? Please I need help ASAP!
 
I don't know about using average force.

Instead: how about
∫F(t) ds = mgh, h = 15m where F(t) includes thrust and gravity.
ds = v dt
dv/dt = F(t)/m
dv = (1/m)F(t) dt
find v(t) by numerical integration
Then substitute for ds in the above integral to solve for m, again numerically. Two numerical integrations!

BTW this is not the first time this probem has been posted, and I remember someone pointing out that the problem does not state the loss of m during burn, so presumably you will choose to ignore it.
 
Is that calculus? I won't be learning that for another 2years in the school system :/
 
Element1674 said:
Is that calculus? I won't be learning that for another 2years in the school system :/

That makes things difficult, meaning for me.
 
Is my method workable though? I'm assuming it won't be as efficient or accurate, but will it still give me accurate enough data to use?
 

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