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Terrorism in Mumbai

  1. Nov 29, 2008 #1
    Last post was omcheeto:


    I think Reshma's post implies that their nationalities are irrelevant, with which I agree. It's not about nationality, it's about ideology.

    TOO LATE!

    Please. Can we stick to what is going on in Mumbai?

    I've yet to run across any pictures of the boats that brought the terrorists in.
    I've heard that when they motored past the fishermen, they told them to mind their own business.
    I see from google-earth that the bay in front of the Taj hotel is filled with boats. I think it would be difficult for your Coast Guard to determine they were terrorists until after the shooting started.

    It may be that the world is becoming jaded to the random suicide bombers. People wielding guns makes for a much more interesting show.

    Indifference. I agree. When the twins towers were hit in New York, my two sisters and I continued to paint my brothers living room. Because it's becoming so commonplace, it's becoming difficult not be indifferent to these kind of acts until they come to your town.

    My condolences for the violence and death in your city.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 29, 2008 #2

    Astronuc

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    I have not seen pictures of the boats, and perhaps it will be some time before evidence is made available.

    Here is one article that describes two Gemini boats.
    http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=3.0.2762084070

    The death toll has risen to over 170 and includes several foreigners, but seemingly mostly residents of Mumbai. The gunmen fired indiscriminantly.

    November 29, 2008
    Mumbai Terrorist Siege Over, India Says
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29mumbai.html
    By SOMINI SENGUPTA and KEITH BRADSHER
    A Day of Reckoning as India Toll Tops 170
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/world/asia/30mumbai.html
     
  4. Nov 29, 2008 #3
    Carrying two currencies and seven credit cards suggest that the gunman expected to walk away from this.
     
  5. Nov 29, 2008 #4

    LowlyPion

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    Maybe one did walk away?
    http://www.gulfnews.com/world/India/10263664.html
     
  6. Nov 29, 2008 #5
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Nov 29, 2008 #6

    mgb_phys

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    I suspect this has about as much validity as Soviet era accident reports which always blamed 'counter revolutionary elements' for everything.
    It is a warning about how reliable the evidence is if you allow political appointees to 'interrogate terrorist suspects.

    Meanwhile in Africa, the 'whose religion is most peaceful' competition leads to a dissapointing result for the carpenter from Nazareth
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7756695.stm
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  8. Nov 29, 2008 #7
    who knows, but you've had a change of government in pakistan, so that changes things. the new government appears to be less militant. also, starting a war with india might be part of a plan by the old government to regain their political power in pakistan.
     
  9. Nov 29, 2008 #8

    mgb_phys

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    I meant that irrespective of who actually did it - an Indian police/army official, a suspect and a couple of electrodes is going to produce the answer you wanted.

    A couple of years ago there was an Al-Quada attack on some trains in Madrid. there was an election the next day and the Spanish goverment was on the ropes over it's unpopular involvement in Iraq. Within hours of the attack Spanish, British and US military intelligence was rushing out statements to prove that it was due to ETA and nothing to do with Iraq at all.
     
  10. Nov 29, 2008 #9
    i guess it all depends on how you do it. you've got to separate the guys and not make suggestions about what you want to hear. even so, if you get the same story from all of them, you have the complication of maybe that being prefabricated.
     
  11. Nov 29, 2008 #10

    Office_Shredder

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    I realized that nowhere has it been reported how many terrorists there are estimated to have been

    EDIT: I should add that I mean nowhere that I've seen... it's probably out there somewhere. Anyone know?
     
  12. Nov 30, 2008 #11

    Art

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    Original estimates were between 20 and 25. Only 10 have been accounted for which means either the original estimates were wrong or some slipped away.
     
  13. Nov 30, 2008 #12
    Thanks OmCheeto for the link. :smile:

    Well one of the terrorists caught alive is spilling the beans. They had hijacked a fishing trawler near the coast of Porbandar (very close to Pakistan border), killed the people on board and made their way to Mumbai.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/10_terrorists_had_entered_Mumbai_Police/articleshow/3774122.cms

    I am more amazed that just 10 terrorists were able to put up a 60 hour long battle with over 200 commandos.
    I think US handled it far better. After 9/11, there wasn't a single terrorist attack on any American in US. This was the 5th terrorist attack on India in 2008 and the 2nd one in Mumbai since 2006.
    Thank you and everyone on PF. :smile:
     
  14. Nov 30, 2008 #13

    Office_Shredder

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    Better technology and a far more stable political situation tend to help with that. Although you still should keep in mind the Beltway sniper incident was after 9/11, and that SUV driver a couple years ago who hit a bunch of people to avenge Muslim deaths and called one of the 9/11 hijackers his role model, so your statement is wrong anyway

    EDIT: Oh, and what about the anthrax mailings?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  15. Nov 30, 2008 #14

    Astronuc

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    Those were isolated criminal actions, not the work of a terrorist group.

    Again this is an action of one individual who had unusual access and opportunity.


    Geography (distance) is helpful in hindering attacks from groups.



    With respect to the number, 10 have been killed and as Reshma mentioned, one has been taken. There is concern that some got away. I saw one estimate of 4 groups of 8, or 32 terrorists. Later, like Art mentioned the number was estimated in the 20's. It will be some time before we know the whole story.

    The terrorists were well trained and organized. The military had to start from scratch, not knowing what they were dealing with, and they had to be careful to minimize collateral damage. The terrorists were dispersed to about 9 or 10 targets, so it took some time to engage and stop the terrorists.
     
  16. Nov 30, 2008 #15

    Office_Shredder

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    I didn't realize that for a terrorist attack to be The Real DealTM it had to be launched by an organized group. Besides, we still don't really know who sent out the anthrax
     
  17. Nov 30, 2008 #16

    Astronuc

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    Security officials and government draw distinction between politically motivated (and international, i.e. those attacking across national borders) terrorist groups, domestic terrorist/hate groups and isolated/individual criminals. One could mention criminal gangs like those in LA and other large cities, but they are more of a threat to each other than the average citizen or those living outside those neighborhoods.

    With respect to the anthrax, the authorities have apparently identified the source, if not the person. The one suspect committed suicide, so we will never know for sure unless someone else confesses and provides evidence. Nevertheless, there has been no further anthrax attacks since that case/investigation.
     
  18. Nov 30, 2008 #17

    OmCheeto

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    It was the least I could do.
    Thank you for the link. I now know where to get my news on this matter.

    Another article from the Times of India:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ist_attack_Ratan_Tata/articleshow/3775558.cms

    Says that the people in the Taj hotel had been warned of an attack.
    Very similar to the 9/11 incident.
    I suppose these terrorists saturate the intelligence communities with false plots to mask the real one.
    I'm sure the terrorists went there with the full intention of not coming out alive. If the commandos had moved faster, for a swift resolution, you might have ended up with 10 times as many casualties. Things become very complicated when hostages are involved.

    If you want to see a historical perspective on how badly these can get, see the Chechan Moscow theater hostage crisis. It's a long read. Basically they pumped poisonous gas into a building with all of the hostages and terrorists. The terrorists had gas masks. Guess who perished.

    We have the advantage of having only friendly neighbors.
    It's quite a bit easier to keep thugs out when they can't walk across your border, or sail a couple of hundred miles into your port cities.
    Keep us posted! :smile:
     
  19. Dec 8, 2008 #18

    LowlyPion

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    Mastermind of attacks apparently arrested in Pakistan.
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...activists_held_Report/articleshow/3807337.cms
     
  20. Dec 8, 2008 #19

    Astronuc

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    There was an article recently that profiled the one terrorist who survived. Apparently he started out as a low level criminal, street hood, and was determined to start his own gang. He was then recruited by some militant group and sent to a paramilitary training camp.

    Other articles indicate that some groups of Taliban and most (if not all) of al-Qaida are involved in criminal activities. They are simply criminal organizations.
     
  21. Dec 8, 2008 #20

    LowlyPion

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