Thermodynamics question (propellant gas)

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on predicting pressure and temperature in a pressure vessel containing burning propellant. It highlights the challenge of accurately determining temperature during combustion, as the gas temperature significantly increases with pressure, reaching 3408K at 1000psi. The ideal gas law can be applied to estimate maximum chamber pressure based on propellant mass, but the complexities of combustion and energy conservation complicate predictions. Participants suggest using energy conservation principles to account for the additional energy from combustion and changing gas composition. The conversation concludes with the idea that practical experimentation may provide further insights into the problem.
jelanier
Messages
67
Reaction score
1
I understand the ideal gas law equation and the use of the gamma and it's relationships.
But what happens when a burning propellant strand is contained in a pressure vessel?

The gas temperature is already heated as it pressurizes the closed chamber.
The gas temperature at 100psi pressure would be 3204K. At 1000psi it would be 3408K. I know this from running a chemical equilibrium program. Those temperatures are at combustion chamber pressures in a rocket motor.

I could simply use the ideal gas law and assume a temperature of 3400K and predict the maximum chamber pressure as based on the total mass of propellant converted into gas. I could calculate the amount of propellant to use so as to not exceed the pressure vessel rating. Or, is the temperature and pressure going to go much higher that those shown for the rocket chamber? (by integrating the totals and applying ideal gas law)

So my question is: How would you accurately predict time vs pressure and temperature for such an apparatus? (temperature is the variable I am struggling with)

Thanks,

Jim
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
How do you relate pressure and temperature? With adiabatic compression? This will not work for combustion, as you add additional energy and probably change the amount of gas (the number of molecules can change).
I think I would try to use energy conservation - look at the total energy before, add the energy released from combustion, solve for temperature and pressure with the gas composition afterwards.
 
Yes, it is an interesting problem. Since P(V^k) is constant with n being constant, I would think that this problem (having variable n and fixed V) would have P((V/n)^k) constant. The difficulty comes from the added energy from combustion as you suggest. It is as if you are injecting hot gas into a fixed volume. I need to think about this some more. Perhaps an actual experiment will get my gears turning in the right direction.
 
I was watching a Khan Academy video on entropy called: Reconciling thermodynamic and state definitions of entropy. So in the video it says: Let's say I have a container. And in that container, I have gas particles and they're bouncing around like gas particles tend to do, creating some pressure on the container of a certain volume. And let's say I have n particles. Now, each of these particles could be in x different states. Now, if each of them can be in x different states, how many total...
Thread 'Why work is PdV and not (P+dP)dV in an isothermal process?'
Let's say we have a cylinder of volume V1 with a frictionless movable piston and some gas trapped inside with pressure P1 and temperature T1. On top of the piston lay some small pebbles that add weight and essentially create the pressure P1. Also the system is inside a reservoir of water that keeps its temperature constant at T1. The system is in equilibrium at V1, P1, T1. Now let's say i put another very small pebble on top of the piston (0,00001kg) and after some seconds the system...
Back
Top