Thermodynamics, saturated Pressure and temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between temperature and pressure in thermodynamics, particularly in the context of a rigid tank containing water. Participants explore how knowing one property can determine the other and the implications of thermodynamic equilibrium on these properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why temperature or pressure can be determined from the other property in a rigid tank scenario, suggesting a connection to thermodynamic tables.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of thermodynamic equilibrium, noting that energy distribution among molecules relates temperature to pressure.
  • Another participant proposes that changing the volume of the tank affects both pressure and temperature, leading to a consistent relationship between these properties.
  • Complications arise when considering the presence of both liquid and vapor in the tank, where changes in volume can lead to gas doing work and liquid evaporation.
  • Participants mention the Phase Rule and express interest in understanding phase diagrams and the relationships between pressure, volume, and temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the connection between temperature and pressure under thermodynamic equilibrium, but there are differing views on the complexities introduced by phase changes and the implications of volume changes.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption of thermodynamic equilibrium and the potential complexities introduced by the presence of multiple phases (liquid and vapor) in the system.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in thermodynamics, particularly those exploring the relationships between temperature, pressure, and phase changes in fluids.

kidsasd987
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I wonder why we can find temperature (or pressure )when the other property value is given.Lets say we have a rigid tank, which contains 50Kg of water at 90 degree celsius.
If we look up the thermodynamics table, we can find the saturation pressure 70.14 kpa and definite liquid and gas specific volume.

But why should it be? why knowing the state(temp or pressure) of one property determines the state of the other property and specific volumes?

Is there any formula related to this?
 
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I wonder why we can find temperature (or pressure )when the other property value is given.
There is one other thing you need to know: that the stuff is at thermodynamic equilibrium.

Basically it has to do with distribution of energy over the molecules. If we pick temperature as independent variable, the energy is distributed in such a way that the average kinetic energy of the molecules causes a specific pressure. Things are connected in the equation of state of the mateerial (simplest case: ideal gas law pV = nRT).
 
BvU said:
There is one other thing you need to know: that the stuff is at thermodynamic equilibrium.

Basically it has to do with distribution of energy over the molecules. If we pick temperature as independent variable, the energy is distributed in such a way that the average kinetic energy of the molecules causes a specific pressure. Things are connected in the equation of state of the mateerial (simplest case: ideal gas law pV = nRT).

Thanks. it makes sense. so if we change the volume of the rigid tank. it will lower the pressure the tank, and also temperature because energy will be dispersed over extra space. If we heat up the rigid body and let the temperature rise to 90 degree celsius, then pressure will accordingly go up and result in the consistent pressure temperature specific volume relation.

Can I understand this as equal distribution of energy over the space?
 
I'd say yes.

Note that things can become complicated easily: e.g. when there is liquid and vapour in the tank and you increase the volume, then a) the gas does pV work and b) liquid will evaporate.
 
BvU said:
I'd say yes.

Note that things can become complicated easily: e.g. when there is liquid and vapour in the tank and you increase the volume, then a) the gas does pV work and b) liquid will evaporate.
Thanks!
 
kidsasd987 said:
Thanks!
Have you ever heard of the Phase Rule? If so, please state it.
 
Chestermiller said:
Have you ever heard of the Phase Rule? If so, please state it.

hmm unfortunately no. I will do some reading about phase Rules. I appreciate you for telling me a key word. I actually tried to figure out how we get a phase diagram and what's the relationships between Pressure Volume and temperature.
 

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