Stargazing U.S. Solar Eclipse of Aug. 21, 2017

AI Thread Summary
The U.S. solar eclipse on August 21, 2017, presents a rare opportunity for viewers across the country, with the path of totality spanning from coast to coast. Many participants are planning to travel to optimal viewing locations, particularly in states like Kentucky and Illinois, to ensure clear skies. Essential equipment for viewing includes eclipse glasses, cameras with telephoto lenses, and possibly telescopes, although some participants express concerns about traffic congestion and weather unpredictability. Past experiences with eclipses highlight the importance of mobility to avoid cloud cover and maximize viewing chances. Overall, the excitement surrounding this event emphasizes its significance for both seasoned eclipse watchers and newcomers alike.
  • #101
OmCheeto said:
Note to my fellow old people: Take a chair. A heavily reclining chair. As the eclipse will be VERY high in the sky.
Thanks for the "Heads up" :wink:
And NASA is putting on a "Two month to the Eclipse" event.
https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/save-date-june-21-2017
 
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  • #102
1oldman2 said:
Thanks for the "Heads up" :wink:
And NASA is putting on a "Two month to the Eclipse" event.
https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/save-date-june-21-2017
Actually, I just doubled checked, and the eclipse will only be at 45° above the horizon where I plan on being at.
It looks like it will be at around 63° at maximum.

ps. I did some spectral testing on the 1st of June, and IMHO, it was a dismal failure.

2017.06.01.1323.eclipse.spectral.test.png

The "rainbow" in the upper right hand corner is why I was interested in BillTre's "Very Dark Black" thread.
My redneck paper towel tube lined with black craft paper and held together with duct tap solar filter device seems to still be leaking light.

2017.06.01.solar.eclipse.redneck.setup.png


Which is a good thing, as it gives me time to research this some more, and maybe whittle something out of a tree branch, as the above device tended to fall off if the wind blew, or I moved the camera, or the camera decided to turn off and retract the lens, at which point the wind would blow it across my driveway.

And my brand new garage sale tripod is much more robust than the one I picked up last year. 1/3 the price, also.

pps. Here's another image of a solar spectrum:

The Flash Spectrum of the Sun [APOD]
Image Credit & Copyright: Constantine Emmanouilidi
Explanation: In a flash, the visible spectrum of the Sun changed from absorption to emission on November 3rd, during the brief total phase of a solar eclipse. That fleeting moment is captured by telephoto lens and diffraction grating in this well-timed image from clearing skies over Gabon in equatorial Africa. With overwhelming light from the Sun's disk blocked by the Moon, the normally dominant absorption spectrum of the solar photosphere is hidden. What remains, spread by the diffraction grating into the spectrum of colors to the right of the eclipsed Sun, are individual eclipse images at each wavelength of light emitted by atoms along the thin arc of the solar chromosphere. The brightest images, or strongest chromospheric emission lines, are due to Hydrogen atoms that produce the red hydrogen alpha emission at the far right and blue hydrogen beta emission to the left. In between, the bright yellow emission image is caused by atoms of Helium, an element only first discovered in the flash spectrum of the Sun.

(a tad too large for PF)

But that bolded part just gave me confirmation of what I was already planning on doing. A video. Even though the resolution drops down to 640 x 480, I'm familiar enough with the camera now, that I know it takes a while to focus, and think about other things, before it finally takes a picture. Getting that shot with a dollar store auto focus camera strikes me as nearly impossible.

hmmmmm... I do have an old Canon A-1 sitting in the closet, and I do have that spare tripod from last years garage sale. Do they still make that silver based plastic "film" stuff, from the olden days?

ppps. I also found the one link that APOD mentioned interesting, as I may have just glossed over some of those facts in the past:

The spectrum of the corona.
... The green emission (at a wavelength of 530 nm) was discovered in 1869 and its origin remained a mystery for over 70 years. Because it could not be identified with any element known on the Earth, it was suspected that it might be due to a new element, tentatively dubbed "coronium." (Remember, that helium was first discovered in the solar spectrum and named after the Sun.) Eventually, however, the mysterious green line was shown to be due to thirteen-times-ionized iron, that is, iron atoms with 13 electrons stripped off! This was one of the first indications that the corona is extremely hot; indeed temperatures of several million degrees are required to strip 13 electrons from iron. The search for coronal heating mechanisms continues to this day...

I've bolded all the thing I find really interesting, or did not know, or had somehow forgotten.
 
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  • #103
OmCheeto said:
(a tad too large for PF)
cropped down to

OMCheeto'sAPOD.jpg
 
  • #104
OmCheeto said:
and maybe whittle something out of a tree branch,

Don't overlook plastic plumbing fittings. All kinds of clever shapes in those bins .

OmCheeto said:
the above device tended to fall off if the wind blew,
Rubber band around back of camera ?

OmCheeto said:
the mysterious green line was shown to be due to thirteen-times-ionized iron,

Just how much iron is in the sun? I thought it was still burning hydrogen into helium.
 
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  • #105
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  • #106
That chart makes me wonder how the fusion rates and quantities change as the sun burns through its hydrogen. As you get more helium, its rate of fusion with other elements increases plus, as the hydrogen quantities decrease, the radiant pressure changes which affects the fusion rates as the effective gravitational pressure increases. So many variables... :wideeyed:
 
  • #107
The interior gets a bit hotter and denser, increasing the fusion rate a bit and making the sun a little bit larger and more luminous. Eventually that process will accelerate and the sun becomes a red giant.

Fusion changes the core composition - the surface composition is a different thing.Apart from the helium->hydrogen process, all the elements in the sun come from its initial composition.
 
  • #108
mfb said:
Apart from the helium->hydrogen process, all the elements in the sun come from its initial composition.
Yes, I should have said a star vs. the sun such that the heavier elements are only created in larger stars and only escape by way of a supernova.
 
  • #109
Well, the Sun will create carbon later in its life, and a little bit of heavier elements.
 
  • #110
Can someone please confirm that the Iron % by mass in the Space.com in Jim's image is incorrect due to a missing zero.

2017.06.09.Friday.PF.fun.png

Thanks!

ps. This was making me want to cry this morning, as I'm really getting tired of my bad maths...
 
  • #111
My Magic Square of Eclipse Prophesy will predict solar eclipses on or near August 21st. All rows, columns, and diagonals will add up to 10085. There could be a few misses, but it should work pretty good otherwise. The square can be reset to any other eclipse on another year by an additive constant.
ecl2017.jpg
 
  • #112
OmCheeto said:
Can someone please confirm that the Iron % by mass in the Space.com in Jim's image is incorrect due to a missing zero.
Good catch. There are three mistakes.
Iron should have 0.003 by abundance (a factor 10 less), and 0.14% by mass (a factor 10 more). Sulfur should have 0.0015 by abundance (a factor 10 less).

@Helios: Where is the prediction? Where are August 23, 2044 or August 24, 2062? 24 August 2101 and 26 August 2147 made it in.
A few misses? You missed 2 out of 5 in the 21st century.

22nd century? 26 August 2109, 15 August 2110 (okay, 6 days), 25 August 2128, 15 August 2129 (6 days), 16 August 2156, 25 August 2166, 27 August 2174 (6 days), 26 August 2193, 16 August 2194 - out of these 6-9 only 3 are in.
Helios said:
The square can be reset to any other eclipse on another year by an additive constant.
We can get eclipses close to August 11 if we adjust add 1 everywhere to have the August 11, 2018 eclipse in the center? Then it would predict an eclipse around August 11, 2037. The last eclipse of 2037 is July 13, 2037. That is about as far away as it can get.

Where does this square come from?

Edit: The most common distance is 19 years, which is close to the length of the Saros cycles of 18 years. 9 years as half a Saros appears as well. 46 is the only other difference. 46=18+9+19.
Starting from 11 August 2018: 9 years later we have August 2, 2027. 19 more for 2046? Indeed: August 2, 2046. +19? August 2, 2065 - spot on. +46? 4 August 2111. +19? 4 August 2130. +46? 4 August 2176
I can't directly link it to Saros cycles and it misses various eclipses, but it looks like a pattern.
 
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  • #113
mfb said:
Good catch. There are three mistakes.

Well ! So much for space dot com as a reliable source.
 
  • #114
@mfb This square should be good! So August 21, 2017 isn't the best for the center. I'll tweak it and put 1998 in the center. That's subtracting 19 years from every date. This changes the sum to 9990. All these are solar eclipses, with only two partials. It doesn't catch all eclipses, just the close and reliable ones. These I think are Y = 19, 65, 84, 130, 149, 168, 177, 223, 242, 261, 307, 326. and I made the square from these.
ecl2017a.jpg
 
  • #115
jim hardy said:
Well ! So much for space dot com as a reliable source.
It looks as though they misabsconded the table from Hyperphysics.
Which they claim to have absconded with from a textbook: Fraknoi, Morrison & Wolff Table 14.2, Published 2000

Trying to find a free copy, I accidentally downloaded a 1200 page, 178 megabyte different text by the same authors: Astronomy, published in 2016.
They have a similar table with all the same elements, though the numbers have been revised a bit.
page 526(text book) or 536(pdf)
Table 15.2
Code:
Elem      % by #    % by mass
H         92.0        73.4
He         7.8        25.0
C          0.02       0.20
N          0.008      0.09
O          0.06       0.80
Ne         0.01       0.16
Mg         0.003      0.06
Si         0.004      0.09
S          0.002      0.05
Fe         0.003      0.14

Trying to find it, I ran across some really fascinating things:

Galileo didn't invent the telescope. He was just the first person to use it for astronomy.​

And just below table 15.2, they mention the following:

The fact that our Sun and the stars all have similar compositions and are made up of mostly hydrogen and helium was first shown in a brilliant thesis in 1925 by Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin, the first woman to get a PhD in astronomy in the United States (Figure 15.3). However, the idea that the simplest light gases—hydrogen and helium—were the most abundant elements in stars was so unexpected and so shocking that she assumed her analysis of the data must be wrong. At the time, she wrote, “The enormous abundance derived for these elements in the stellar atmosphere is almost certainly not real.” Even scientists sometimes find it hard to accept new ideas that do not agree with what everyone “knows” to be right.

jim hardy said:
Don't overlook plastic plumbing fittings. All kinds of clever shapes in those bins .

Good idea! I actually found one that fit. But the camera was not designed for the addition of auxiliary lenses, so it ended up not working. But I did devise something that will work. I'm almost ready!

All I need now, is a cardboard box.

1963.Francis.Miller.lifeeclipseimage.jpg

1963. Interesting solution when you don't have solar filter material. Actually, I think this is a brilliant idea, for people who can't make it to totality.
 
  • #116
What do you mean ...The points of Greatest Eclipse...will be at the opposite sides of Kentucky. The closest place to me would be in Idaho since I live near Salt lake. So would I be driving up there just to view an almost full eclipse or what?
 
  • #117
Huh?
Everyone in the band will see a total eclipse. In the center it is longer than close to the edges. At Shelley you have a very short phase of totality, at Idaho Falls it is longer already, and between Rigby and Rexburg you have the longest totality.

The duration of the eclipse in the center of the band varies a bit as well along the band, but that is a smaller effect.
 
  • #118
Seymore Proof said:
What do you mean ...The points of Greatest Eclipse...will be at the opposite sides of Kentucky. The closest place to me would be in Idaho since I live near Salt lake. So would I be driving up there just to view an almost full eclipse or what?

per NASA's GLOSSARY OF SOLAR ECLIPSE TERMS;
"greatest eclipse - For solar eclipses, Greatest Eclipse (GE) is defined as the instant when the axis of the Moon's shadow cone passes closest to Earth's center."​

Don't feel bad. I had to look it up. As far as I'm concerned, it's an "eclipse nerd" term.

I don't think it will make much of a difference where you see it from, as long as you're at or very near the blue centerline.
2017.06.10.eclipse.idaho.utah.map.png

As, the closer to the blue line you are, the longer totality lasts.

On the blue line near Idaho Falls, totality lasts 2 minutes and 18 seconds.
On the red lines, totality last about 1 second.

Driving all the way to Kentucky to be at the "Greatest eclipse" point, will add about 20 seconds to totalities duration.

Hardly worth the petrol, IMHO.
 
  • #119
OmCheeto said:
...
I don't think it will make much of a difference where you see it from, as long as you're at or very near the blue centerline.
...

Unless of course, you are using NASA's map, and then you want to be near the red line:

2017.06.10.nasa.eclipse.map.idaho.utah.png


https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/interactive_map/index.html
 
  • #120
Being near the edge has the advantage of longer diamond ring and Bailey's Beads and perhaps prominences. But it comes at the expense of totality duration and darkness of sky. Areas just a mile away from you are in your direct line of sight and experiencing direct sunlight.

Being far from the "Greatest Eclipse" has the advantage of giving you a longer shadow along the track of the eclipse, perhaps giving you a darker sky at mid-eclipse. You also don't have to strain your neck as much as the eclipse is lower in the sky. These advantages come at the expense of totality duration.

I got a campsite in Madres at their Oregon Solarfest. It's a 20 x 20 foot plot for my car and my tent. They've planned a large 3-day party complete with classic rock cover bands. We will get 2:03 of totality beginning at 10:19 am, and the Sun will be a comfortable 42 degrees above the horizon.
 
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  • #121
The good news for me is that I´ll be out on vacations from college on this date, the bad news, I don´t think I can afford a trip to the US, being a broken college student in Mexico City does not allow much of my budget for traveling (shame, shame). Still here will be visible as a partial eclipse, so I got that going for me, which is fine.
 
  • #122
SetepenSeth said:
The good news for me is that I´ll be out on vacations from college on this date, the bad news, I don´t think I can afford a trip to the US, being a broken college student in Mexico City does not allow much of my budget for traveling (shame, shame). Still here will be visible as a partial eclipse, so I got that going for me, which is fine.
There will be one in your area in about 7 years. Start saving your money, and bookmark this thread.

I'm 58 years old, and this will be the first one I've had an opportunity to see.
I just checked my military records, and discovered I was in Florida the last time an eclipse was in the area.
It's kind of funny, as just two months later I was transferred to Idaho, very near the path.
But not too funny. :oldgrumpy:
 
  • #123
Assuming the moon is moving outwards (away from earth) at a [current] rate of about 4cm a year (1m in 25ys; 100,000km in 2.5 bill. ys), can someone give a rough estimate of when will be the last total eclipse?
 
  • #125
Stavros Kiri said:
Assuming the moon is moving outwards (away from earth) at a [current] rate of about 4cm a year (1m in 25ys; 100,000km in 2.5 bill. ys), can someone give a rough estimate of when will be the last total eclipse?
I get roughly 787 million years. This is assuming the last possible total eclipse will occur when the Earth is at aphelion while the Moon is at perigee. This does not however take into account any change in the Earth/Sun distance during that time period.
 
  • #126
mfb said:
Sounds reasonable, and thanks for the source (I saw the earth-solar system etc. timeline table ... - other useful deadlines/timelines on your source too).
But I mostly meant with a rough calculation, assuming noticable changes on the moon phenomenal diameter, assuming at first stage that the Earth is not moving away from the Sun ... (but it does! ...).
Janus said:
I get roughly 787 million years. This is assuming the last possible total eclipse will occur when the Earth is at aphelion while the Moon is at perigee. This does not however take into account any change in the Earth/Sun distance during that time period.
Sounds reasonable too, and it's about of the same order of magnitude as mfb's.
Janus said:
This does not however take into account any change in the Earth/Sun distance during that time period.
I agree.
 
  • #127
Stavros Kiri said:
Sounds reasonable, and thanks for the source (I saw the earth-solar system etc. timeline table ... - other useful deadlines/timelines on your source too).
But I mostly meant with a rough calculation, assuming noticable changes on the moon phenomenal diameter, assuming at first stage that the Earth is not moving away from the Sun ... (but it does! ...).

Sounds reasonable too, and it's about of the same order of magnitude as mfb's.

I agree.
It also doesn't take into account other factors, such as continental drift, which by changing the arrangement of the continents, alters the value of the tidal drag and thus the recession rate of the Moon.
 
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  • #128
Janus said:
It also doesn't take into account other factors, such as continental drift, which by changing the arrangement of the continents, alters the value of the tidal drag and thus the recession rate of the Moon.

Wow, I think that's pretty amazing that the models are so refined as to make effects that small significant. How big is that effect. ##10^{-1}##? ##10^{-3}##? ##10^{-5}##?
 
  • #129
It should be quite significant, as water tides are an important part of the process. Unfortunately it is hard to model that.

The size of Sun increases over time, this is relevant as well.
 
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  • #130
Furthermore, both moon's recession rate as well as Earth's rotation seem to be slowing down over time (with a connection between the two effects).
E.g. see:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Recession_of_the_Moon

Note: precise current moon retreat rate: (3.82±0.07) cm/yr
 
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  • #131
izumi said:
looks interesting,i am looking forward for watch them
Let's enjoy the total solar eclipses for the next ~600 million years, starting with the one coming up ...
Yeah, we got time! :smile:
 
  • #132
I traveled to Penzance in the UK for the August 11 1999 eclipse and it rained!

I had better luck for the March 29 2006 one in Side,Turkey. We were right on the eclipse track and the BBC team were in the next hotel. Unfortunately dear old Patrick Moore was too ill to attend. I got some great video and stills of the event. I still had time to see it in all its glory despite fiddling with cameras!

Truly awesome is the only way to describe a total solar eclipse.
 
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  • #133
This one will pass right over me. I'll be out there watching, probably in Gallatin Tennessee, or wherever in the state the best weather is.
 
  • #135
NASA's Great American Total Solar Eclipse Preview @ 1 pm ET Today
On Wednesday, June 21 - the summer solstice - NASA will hold two major press conferences to provide an overview of the Aug. 21 total solar eclipse, which will be visible to potentially millions of people as the moon's shadow crosses the continental United States from Oregon to South Carolina. You can watch the briefings here, courtesy of NASA TV, beginning at 1 p.m. EDT (1700 GMT) - See more at: https://www.space.com/17933-nasa-television-webcasts-live-space-tv.html#sthash.HLP2eYtS.dpuf
 
  • #136
1. Science Briefing about the eclipse by NASA (a bit lengthy, but good video):


2. Interesting and short ... :
 
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  • #137
New & interesting (excellent videos from NASA):
1. Eclipse Primer on "This Week @NASA" (Today, Fri June 23, 2017):

2. Ways to watch the Eclipse (came out on 6/21/17):

3. Safety Briefing (6/21/17):
 
  • #138
Borg said:
Today's APOD put up a nice video of the path.
75% of totality across nearly the entire continental U.S. :woot:
Eclipse Across America: Path Prediction Video


This makes me glad to be living in Salem, I just hope the weather doesn't do anything crazy. :)
 
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  • #139
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  • #140
Borg said:
For those who haven't gotten glasses yet (like me), 2 million free eclipse glasses will be available at libraries throughout the US. :woot:
I still have my packet of "Science&Telescope" eclipse glasses from the Aug. 11, 1999 eclipse in Europe. Who thinks they are still safe to use them?

Here's also a couple of short videos from back then:

 
  • #141
Stavros Kiri said:
I still have my packet of "Science&Telescope" eclipse glasses from the Aug. 11, 1999 eclipse in Europe. Who thinks they are still safe to use them?
As long as they are not compromised from storage, I would expect them to be just fine.

If they are torn, creased, or otherwise compromised in the lenses, I would dispose of them, even if they are a souvenir, so that no one in the future (little kids) get a hold of them, and try to use them.

However, if you have taken care to make sure they made the 18 year journey unscathed, I would expect them to be just fine. On August 22, mine will go into a hard case, and my sock drawer. The 2024 eclipse is only 6-2/3 years, and 90 minutes from home - if I'm alive, I intend to be there with my kids, and (maybe) grand kids.

If anyone is interested in joining us near Makanda Illinois for an eclipse party, check out the thread at: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solar-con-eclipse-road-trip-to-makanda-illinois.914983/
 
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  • #142
Blank_Stare said:
As long as they are not compromised from storage, I would expect them to be just fine.

If they are torn, creased, or otherwise compromised in the lenses, I would dispose of them, even if they are a souvenir, so that no one in the future (little kids) get a hold of them, and try to use them.

However, if you have taken care to make sure they made the 18 year journey unscathed, I would expect them to be just fine. On August 22, mine will go into a hard case, and my sock drawer. The 2024 eclipse is only 6-2/3 years, and 90 minutes from home - if I'm alive, I intend to be there with my kids, and (maybe) grand kids.

If anyone is interested in joining us near Makanda Illinois for an eclipse party, check out the thread at: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solar-con-eclipse-road-trip-to-makanda-illinois.914983/
Thanks! It makes a lot of sense.
 
  • #143
Borg said:
For those who haven't gotten glasses yet (like me), 2 million free eclipse glasses will be available at libraries throughout the US. :woot:
An interactive map of libraries participating in the eclipse project across the country can be found online.
I picked up three pair last week and looked directly at the sun with one yesterday. It appears to work well since I can still see. :smile:
 
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  • #144
Borg said:
It appears to work well since I can still see. :smile:
That's what I always wear everyday ...
 
  • #145
Stavros Kiri said:
That's what I always wear everyday ...
Perhaps that explains those nasty bruises on your forehead?... :smile:
 
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  • #146
Blank_Stare said:
Perhaps that explains those nasty bruises on your forehead?... :smile:
Gee thanks! ...
 
  • #148
The Concorde did that for more than an hour in 1973.

An F-22 Raptor could probably stay in the shadow for about an hour as well.
SR-71 Blackbird could have stayed in the shadow as long as it had fuel, but the model is retired.
 
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  • #149
mfb said:
The Concorde did that for more than an hour in 1973.
From the U.T. article.:thumbup:

Should throw this in also.
Airborne total solar eclipse chasing goes all the way back to August 19th 1887, when Dmitri Mendeleev (he of the periodic table) observed totality from aloft. There’s a great old video of an effort to chase a 1925 total solar eclipse using the airship the USS Los Angeles:
 
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  • #150
This is an fun video:



I was mostly interested in the "Shadow Bands" discussion.

≈4:20 discussion begins about "Shadow bands"

GMT; "...And if you're really lucky, you'll get to observe shadow bands. The shadow bands don't happen at every eclipse. ..."​

≈5:55
SED; "How long does it last?"
GMT; "For about 20 or 30 seconds."

how to capture shadow bands:
GMT; "Set up a camera on manual exposure on a king sized white sheet".

On this last Memorial Day weekend, I went to a garage sale, and purchased TWO king sized white sheets, just for that purpose, for a dollar. (pat on back, pat on back)

SED: Smarter Every Day, webcaster
GMT: Gordon M. Telepun: Plastic Surgeon, Eclipse Fanatic, gives talks about "eclipses" at NASA.

Anyone have any tips on how to capture "low contrast" images with a camera?
 
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