Calculating Uncertainty: Where Am I Going Wrong?

In summary, the conversation is discussing the uncertainty in deriving the value of f using a given equation. The person asking the question is having trouble with the uncertainty equation and is seeking help in understanding where they may have gone wrong. The expert provides a summary of the mistakes the person has made in their calculations, including using the incorrect values and repeating variables. The expert also clarifies the concept of a 5% uncertainty and provides guidance on how to correctly use the uncertainty equation.
  • #1
Taylor_1989
402
14
Homework Statement
A histological slide contains darkly stained cells of two kinds-normal cells which are circular in shape and elliptical cells f the same area (which are pathological). An automated image processing sequence aims to identify and distinguish the individual objects and calculating their respective form factors.

The are of an ellipse is ##A=\pi ab##( where a is the length of the semi-major axis, and b is the length of the semi-minor axis). The perimeter of an ellipse is quite difficult to calculate but a simply and fairly crude approximation is given by

$$P=2\pi \sqrt{\frac{a^2+b^2}{2}}$$

d) using the formulae above, calculate #f# for an ellipse and deduce its maximum and minimum values as ##a## ranges from ##b## to ##3b##. Sketch ##f## as ##a## ranges from ##b## to ##3b##

e)We assume that the perimeter of the ellipse given by the formula above is uncertain to about 5% of it true value bu the area is know exactly.
Derive the corresponding uncertainty in ##f##, and use your sketch from part d) (or otherwise) to deduce the minimum value of the ratio of ##a## to ##b## which would enable a clear distinction to be made between normal and pathological cells?
Relevant Equations
Uncertainty equation
$$Y=X^n$$
$$\Delta Y = |n|\frac{\Delta x}{x}|Y|$$

form factor equation
$$f=\frac{\pi ab}{\left(2\pi \sqrt{\frac{a^2+b^2}{2}}\right)^2}$$
So the only part of this question I am having an issue with is the uncertainty part in part e). I have included the whole question as reference. So to derive the uncertainty in ff I used the uncertainty equation outlined above but the issue is that when I propagate the uncertainty I end up with an additional b term which I believe should cancel and I should end up with a numerical value, believe not 100% certain.

My working are as follows

$$\frac{\Delta f}{f}=2 \frac{\Delta P}{P}$$$$\frac{\Delta f}{f}=2 \frac{0.05}{2 \pi \sqrt{\frac{a^2+b^2}{2}}} $$

Now if i use the value give say a=b then if I sub that into my uncertainty equation I will be left with a b term, which is seems to confuse me as surely I would need a numerical value, as to me the question is asking for a numerical value, by asking for the uncertainty in f?

Now I am a bit ropy with uncertainty equations, but after a brief look at some examples, I can't see the equation I am using to be wrong, could anyone maybe advise me if I am going wrong as to why.
 
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  • #2
You seem to be applying your uncertainty equation wrongly. If f = A/P, then n = -1 and
Δf = 1*(ΔP/P)*f
Δf/f = ΔP/P = 0.05
Your mistakes appear to be
(i) Where does the number 2 come from?
(ii) You are repeating f (or ff as you call it) - it should either be in the numerator of the RHS, or the denominator of the LHS, but not both.
(iii) 0.05 is ΔP/P, not ΔP, so don't divide by P.
 
  • #3
Okay sorry i need to edit the OP the 2 comes from the nurmerator being square which I used a latex generator, I pasted the equation in incorrectly, my appoliges I will correct the.
 
  • #4
OK, you've corrected that, but you still wrongly have the expression for P in the denominator. 0.05 is ΔP/P, not ΔP. Do you understand what "5% uncertainty" means?
 

1. What is uncertainty and why is it important in scientific calculations?

Uncertainty refers to the amount of doubt or error in a measurement or calculation. It is important in scientific calculations because it helps to determine the accuracy and reliability of the results. It also allows for a better understanding of the limitations and potential sources of error in the data.

2. How is uncertainty calculated?

Uncertainty is typically calculated using the error propagation formula, which takes into account the uncertainties of each individual measurement or value used in the calculation. It involves multiplying the uncertainties of each value by their respective coefficients and then adding them together. This gives an overall uncertainty value for the final result.

3. What factors contribute to uncertainty in scientific calculations?

There are several factors that can contribute to uncertainty in scientific calculations, such as limitations of measuring instruments, human errors, and variations in the environment or conditions of the experiment. It is important to identify and account for these factors in order to minimize uncertainty in the results.

4. How can I reduce uncertainty in my calculations?

One way to reduce uncertainty is to improve the precision and accuracy of the measurements used in the calculation. This can be achieved by using more accurate instruments, taking multiple measurements, and minimizing sources of error. It is also important to properly document and analyze the data to identify and account for any potential sources of uncertainty.

5. What are the limitations of uncertainty calculations?

Uncertainty calculations can only account for known and quantifiable sources of error. There may be other factors that contribute to uncertainty that are not accounted for in the calculation. Additionally, uncertainty calculations are based on statistical analysis and may not accurately represent the true uncertainty in the results. Therefore, it is important to use good judgment and consider all possible sources of error when interpreting the uncertainty in scientific calculations.

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