Understanding the Invariance of dl in Biot-Savart Law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the invariance of the differential length element \( dl \) in the context of the Biot-Savart law. Participants explore the implications of coordinate systems on \( dl \) and its mathematical treatment within the law's formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why \( dl \) does not depend on the coordinate systems in the Biot-Savart law expression.
  • Another participant asserts that \( d\ell \) is a vector and thus does not depend on the coordinate system, but expresses confusion over the meaning of \( \nabla \times d\ell \).
  • A participant shares a derivation file and seeks clarification on the notation \( \nabla \times d\ell' = 0 \) used in the derivation.
  • In response, another participant explains that \( d\ell \) and \( d\ell' \) refer to different coordinate systems, leading to the conclusion that \( \nabla \times d\ell' \) is zero due to the independence of the coordinates.
  • One participant expresses gratitude after gaining clarity on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the vector nature of \( d\ell \) and its independence from coordinate systems, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the interpretation of \( \nabla \times d\ell \) and the implications of using primed and unprimed coordinates.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the use of primed and unprimed coordinates in mathematical proofs, but does not resolve the broader implications of these concepts on the Biot-Savart law.

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In the expression of Biot-Savart law
B = (µo/4π) ∫ (I dl x r^)/r2
why dl does not depend on the coordinate systems ?
in books they are using del X dl = 0
 
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It's natural d\ell doesn't depend on the coordinate system; it's a vector.

Still, \nabla \times d\ell doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Could you give some more context for this question?
 
i am attaching a file in which the derivation of biot-savart law is given. Now after equation 6-29 they used del X dl' = 0. i want to know the reason
 

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It says the reason right in the screenshot:

Now, since the unprimed and primed coordinates are independent, \nabla \times d\ell' = 0

Here, d\ell and d\ell' are two different things. The first depends on "unprimed" coordinates (i.e. x, y, z) and the second depends on "primed" coordinates x', y', z'). The operator \nabla differentiates only with respect to the unprimed coordinates. Hence, \nabla \times d\ell' is zero because x', y', z' are not functions of x,y, z; they can't be differentiated with respect to the unprimed coordinates.

This use of primed and unprimed variables is pretty common in proofs of integral theorems, particularly when you have a function on the left that is, say, X(r), generally the variable of integration on the right is r'. For example,

E(r) = \int \frac{\rho(r')/\epsilon_0}{4\pi |r - r'|^2} \; dV'

Here, r' is the dummy variable of integration, and dV' is the associated volume element for that variable.
 
now i got it. thanks a lot
 

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