Variation principle -- looking for resources to read and understand

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around seeking resources to learn and understand the variation principle, particularly in the context of Lagrangian mechanics and field theory. Participants express interest in both foundational texts and specific examples related to the variation of Lagrangians, including electromagnetic terms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests resources with solved examples for the variation principle, specifically for the electromagnetic Lagrangian including terms like ##A_\mu J^\mu##.
  • Another participant questions how the original poster has progressed in their studies without prior knowledge of the Lagrangian formulation and suggests multiple textbooks, including "Spacetime Geometry" by Sean Carroll.
  • A follow-up request for alternative references to Carroll is made.
  • Several additional resources are proposed by participants, including "Emily Noether's Wonderful Theorem" by Neuenschwander, "SR and Classical Field Theory" by Susskind, "Elementary Particles" by Griffiths, "QFT for the Gifted Amateur" by Lancaster & Blundell, and "QFT in a Nutshell" by Zee.
  • One participant advises starting with the action principle in classical mechanics and classical field theory before approaching quantum field theory, recommending "Landau and Lifshitz" volumes 1 and 2, while critiquing Zee's book as not suitable for beginners.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on a single best resource, as participants suggest various texts and express differing opinions on their suitability for beginners versus advanced learners.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with the Lagrangian formulation and the variation principle, indicating a range of assumptions about prior knowledge and the complexity of the resources discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and learners interested in Lagrangian mechanics, field theory, and the variation principle may find the suggested resources helpful for their studies.

Pouramat
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Summary:: Can anyone introduce an informative resource with solved examples for learning variation principle?

For example I cannot do the variation for the electromagnetic lagrangian when ##A_\mu J^\mu## added to the free lagrangian and also some other terms which are possible:
$$
L = \sqrt{-g}(\frac{-1}{4}F^{\mu \nu}F_{\mu \nu}+A_\mu J^\mu)
$$
also I want to add ##L' = \beta R^{\mu \nu} g^{\rho \sigma}F_{\mu \rho}F_{\nu \sigma}## to lagrangian and then do the variation to see what is the difference, but I cannnot.
Do you know any good resources to understand with solved examples?
 
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How have you got this far in your physics studies without learning the Lagrangian formulation and variational principle?

I must have at least four text-books that cover this in one form or other. E.g. Spacetime Geometry, by Sean Carroll.
 
PeroK said:
How have you got this far in your physics studies without learning the Lagrangian formulation and variational principle?

I must have at least four text-books that cover this in one form or other. E.g. Spacetime Geometry, by Sean Carroll.
Can you give me another reference except Carroll?
 
Pouramat said:
Can you give me another reference except Carroll?
Emily Noether's Wonderful Theorem - Neuenschwander

SR and Classical Field Theory (The Theoretical Minimum) - Susskind

Elementary Particles - Griffiths

QFT for the Gifted Amateur - Lancaster & Blundell

QFT in a Nutshell - Zee
 
  • Informative
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I would first study the action principle within classical mechanics and then classical field theory before I'd go into quantum field theory. For this I'd recommend Landau and Lifshitz vols. 1 and 2.

If you start with the latter, don't take Zee's book. It's fun to read if you know the subject from somewhere else. It's not a good source to start learning it, because it wants to put too much in the nutshell and is thus too superficial to explain QFT for a beginner. Lancaster and Blundell is way better.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: Pouramat

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