Can you solve this challenging integral using a clever modification?

In summary, the problem can be solved by substituting x for y in the original integral and adding it to the original.
  • #1
omri_mar
17
2
hi guys!
can you please help me with this integral? I've tried some subs but i really don't know how to start...
Thank you !
 

Attachments

  • 72837_546314312086147_11364107_n.jpg
    72837_546314312086147_11364107_n.jpg
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  • #2
Expanding with ##\sqrt{\ln(9-x)}-\sqrt{\ln(3+x)}## gives
$$\frac {\sqrt{\ln(9-x)}\left(\sqrt{\ln(9-x)}-\sqrt{\ln(3+x)}\right)} {\ln(9-x)-\ln(3+x)}$$

That can be split into two parts, where one part looks easy and the other part can be simplified significantly. I don't know if that will lead to a solution, however.
 
  • #3
first of all thank you!
Ive tried this and it lead me nowhere..
 
  • #4
Hmm okay, I don't see how to solve the remaining part either.

An interesting observation: 3+x goes from 5 to 7, while 9-x goes from 7 to 5. There could be some symmetry to exploit, but I did not find it yet.
 
  • #5
Thats actually very interesting because according to the answers the answer is 1.
Can someone help me...?
 
  • #6
Hint: substitute ##\displaystyle x = 6-y##.

EDIT: numerous glitches in the PF software are making it difficult to post. Basically, I wanted to add: don't try to simplify the integrand, etc. Just do the sub, and see what happens to the bounds. This is actually a very simple problem in disguise.
 
Last edited:
  • #7
I can't remove the disguise... :(
 
  • #8
this is what i get
 

Attachments

  • integral.png
    integral.png
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  • #9
Ah nice, that is the right way to solve it.
@omri_mar: You can modify this new integrand to look similar to the old one now.
 
  • #10
I don't get it. How can I continue?
 
  • #11
Try adding together the new integral and the old one
 
  • #12
what do you mean?
 
  • #13
You have an equation (old integral)=(new integral). Try to write (new integral) as (something)-(old integral). This gives you an equation like 2*(old integral)=(something), and (something) is easy to calculate.

Don't write PMs, please.
 
  • #14
omri_mar said:
this is what i get

Sorry for the late reply - I just noticed your bounds are off in the attachment to post 8. Your bounds should be reversed (identical to the original integral). Don't forget that ##dy = -dx##. Other than that, the other posters have already told you how to proceed. Remember that in a definite integral, the variable of integration is basically just a dummy variable, so whether it's x or y, it doesn't matter. So just replace the y in the new integral with x, and add it to the original integral. Now you have twice the original integral, and it's equal to something very simple.
 
  • #15
omri_mar said:
this is what i get

attachment.php?attachmentid=57991&d=1366283488.png
(Most of post deleted in Edit. It was pretty much redundant with Curious3141 post. )

Now modify the numerator by adding and subtracting ... (something clever) .
 
Last edited:

1. What is a very hard integral?

An integral is a mathematical concept that represents the area under a curve. A very hard integral is one that is extremely challenging to solve, either due to its complexity or the lack of known methods to solve it.

2. Why are some integrals considered "very hard"?

Integrals can be challenging for a variety of reasons. They may involve complex functions, have no known analytical solutions, or require advanced mathematical techniques to solve.

3. How do scientists approach solving very hard integrals?

Scientists use a variety of mathematical techniques to solve very hard integrals, such as integration by parts, substitution, and trigonometric identities. They may also use computer programs or numerical methods to approximate the solution.

4. Can very hard integrals be solved by hand?

Some very hard integrals can be solved by hand, but it often requires advanced mathematical knowledge and techniques. In many cases, it is more efficient to use computer programs or numerical methods to solve them.

5. Why are very hard integrals important in scientific research?

Integrals are used in many areas of scientific research, such as physics, chemistry, and engineering. Very hard integrals often arise in complex or real-world problems, and solving them can lead to important insights and advancements in these fields.

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