Water Phase Diagram: Mathematically Modeling and Validating

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical modeling of water phase diagrams, particularly focusing on the solid-liquid boundary and the implications of using the Clapeyron equation. Participants explore the validity of treating enthalpy and volume changes as constant and the resulting implications for the shape of the phase diagram.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the linear behavior of the solid-liquid boundary in phase diagrams and seeks clarification on the mathematical modeling using the Clapeyron equation, noting that integration yields a logarithmic relationship rather than a straight line.
  • Another participant asserts that the phase diagram is complex and emphasizes that the steep slope is due to the low pressure context of water and ice, suggesting larger deviations at higher pressures.
  • A different participant requests a mathematical model that explains the observed linearity in various diagrams, expressing skepticism about the validity of constant ΔH and ΔV_m in producing the expected shape.
  • Some participants note that locally, if the temperature ratio does not deviate significantly from 1, the logarithmic relationship can appear linear, which may account for the observed shape in certain regions of the diagram.
  • Concerns are raised about the non-linear curved sections at high pressure, questioning how these regions relate to the Clapeyron equation and suggesting the possibility of additional solidus points.
  • One participant mentions that the small value of ΔV contributes to the steep slope observed in the phase diagram.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of modeling assumptions and the interpretation of phase diagrams, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus on the mathematical modeling of the solid-liquid boundary.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the assumptions regarding constant ΔH and ΔV_m, as well as the scope of the Clapeyron equation in accurately representing the phase diagram's shape, particularly at varying pressures and temperatures.

DLawless
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I notice that water phase diagrams provided online always seem to show a rather linear behaviour for the solid-liquid boundary (and an extremely steep slope).

How is this modeled mathematically? Say we use the Clapeyron equation with ΔH and ΔV_m being constant, as online example problems (meant for students) do. Integration with this yields a ln(T2/T1) for example--not the equation of a straight line. So where does the almost straight line, which suggests that P=kT for some very large negative k, come from? And how valid is it really to model ΔH and ΔV_m as constant, if this doesn't produce a line that looks much like the diagrams show?
 
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It is not linear. Here is a phase diagram: It's complicated.
DLawless said:
Integration with this yields a ln(T2/T1) for example
For what, and what are T1 and T2?

The line is so steep because both a few hundred kPa is a low pressure in the context of water and ice. You see larger deviations at tens of MPa.
 
Many other diagrams show a line, e.g. https://uh.edu/~jbutler/physical/chapter6notes.html, https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/schwartz/files/9-phases.pdf. I saw the diagram you mentioned too.

I would like to know the mathematical model that leads to either of these. It doesn't appear to be constant ΔH and ΔV_m since neither the shape in the diagram you linked, nor a straight line, corresponds well to

$$P = P_0 + \frac{\Delta H}{\Delta V_m} \rm{ln} \frac{T}{T_0}$$

which is the result from integrating Clapeyron equation. (T0,P0) can be any known point, e.g. (273.15 K, 1 atm) for water solidus

Yet all the problems/examples one finds online seems to treat ΔH and ΔV_m as constant. If it is valid to do so I would like to know how the boundary can have the shape we see on the diagrams.
 
mfb said:
Locally (if T/T0 doesn't deviate too much from 1) a logarithm looks like a straight line.

Good point! That may explain the linear shape.

What about the non-linear curved bits at high pressure (that you can see on the diagram you linked originally, or the one here https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/schwartz/files/9-phases.pdf on p4)? They don't necessarily appear to follow the equation I gave...

Edit: actually it looks like there might be a cusp and another independent solidus?
 
The ##\Delta V## is tiny, and that accounts for the huge slope.
 

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