What approach should be used when solving a circuit?

AI Thread Summary
To effectively analyze a circuit, it's crucial to simplify it first and adopt a systematic approach rather than seeking a final equation immediately. Utilizing techniques such as nodal and mesh analysis can help in setting up equations for all currents and voltages in the circuit. When dealing with components like BJTs, transformations can simplify the analysis, such as replacing the base-emitter path with a fixed DC voltage source. Additionally, practicing multiple methods to solve a circuit can ensure accuracy and reinforce understanding. Ultimately, focusing on practical applications and design considerations is essential for real-world circuit analysis.
  • #51
Joshy said:
I can't do that op-amp one in my head :( I thought it was obvious, but then I noticed the resistors weren't balanced and I can't remember the formula by heart anymore.
Don't feel bad. I had to go through it a couple times because my memory isn't what it used to be. Had to double check what the voltage was at the non inverting input. I'm not so slow as to look at the three volt source and not realize that the voltage on + should be -1 volt. But when I work through the other side I forget that I started with -1 volt. Probably just a sign of getting old.
 
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  • #52
Averagesupernova said:
@yungman I really respect your high expectations. I feel as if in the past I have nearly forgotten that some of the formal laws in electronics exist such as KCL and KVL. It hit me one day when a coworker who troubleshot test equipment as I did asked me how I 'did it'. Apparently they thought I had some special magical view into what I was working on that they did not. Since this was a good friend I took a long time to give an answer that I thought accurately describes my approach at troubleshooting. What I learned by analyzing myself was that I was doing a lot of things that I was taking for granted. As a comparison, it was like describing every last little muscle movement involved in walking to someone who is learning to walk. I had no idea I was doing all of these things without thinking about it. You know why that happens? Practice practice practice practice. The only reason I may have been more special was because I probably enjoyed it more than anyone else I knew at the time.
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So just because you think you aren't doing what someone less experienced than yourself does, doesn't mean it's true. You just aren't thinking about it.
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And yes I looked at the circuits you posted. Simple stuff to anyone with experience.
Actually I learn this in my very first 6 months I decided to learn electronics from the book by Malvino that is for technicians. It's just a practical approach in electronic circuits. That was even before I got my first real electronics job as a technician. I was a field service tech right before that and I discovered electronics was/is my ultimate passion. I studied this in between service calls in the car. I studied so hard I screwed up my job and got fired! I stayed home and studied 18 hours a day and got my real electronics job in 3 months. I thought this is as basic as it gets.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=malvino+...,aps,223&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_7&tag=pfamazon01-20
 
  • #53
Joshy said:
I can't do that op-amp one in my head :( I thought it was obvious, but then I noticed the resistors weren't balanced and I can't remember the formula by heart anymore.
Think about the characteristics of an opamp:
1) input is very high impedance and will follow any voltage within the +/- supply voltage...say +/- 15V.
2) The output is open loop gain Av X (differential input voltage). That the Av is very high. Meaning the output will do everything within about +/- 13V ( need a little headroom from +/-15V) to make the differential voltage = 0.
3) closed loop gain of opamp is feedback resistor divide by input resistor which is 2K/1K=2
4) The DC voltage of the signal generator before the signal starts is 0V as drawn.

Arming with these, look at the circuit, the +ve input is driven by 1K and 2K resistor from ground to -3V. The voltage at +ve input is -1V as per (1) above.

Then let's assume from very start, output voltage is 0V. The generator output is 0V, so the voltage at -ve input is 0V. This means the differential voltage (+ve input minus -ve input) = -3-0 = -3V.

From (2) where Av is very high, the output will swing low. When it swing to -3V, the -ve input will be at -1V. At this time, the differential input = -3V -(-3V) =0V. So the output will stop going further down and stay at -3V. This is the resting point of the circuit or the DC analysis of the circuit.

When the generator start giving a triangular wave form, you can calculate that...BUT it is too tedious. That's the reason I ask only to draw the output waveform. You know triangular wave forms has straight slanted line, so you just have to find the two points at the tip and draw straight line. From (3), you know the gain of the circuit is 2. input waveform is 0.5V PEAK. you know the peak output is +/-1V around -3V(base line). So the output is swinging from (-3V+(-1V) to (-3V+1V) = -4V to -2V.

Last thing, remember, the signal generator is driving the -ve input, so the output waveform is OPPOSITE to the input waveform.

Most important thing is to remember the first two characteristics of opamp, forget about all the offset, frequency response and others first. Just the basic characteristics.

That Malvino book is very good. Believe it or not, I designed IC with not much more than this book. The Grey & meyer book just add to it, but I pretty much relied on Malvino for all the work.
 
  • #54
Same thing for the transistor circuit.
1) assume Vbe=0.7V.
2) Since I did not specify transistor, just assume Beta is high. Meaning Ib=0 and Ie = Ic.Based on these two. We first find the voltage at the base which is voltage divider of 20K and 10K across +/-15V. Which gives -5V.

The voltage on the emitter of the first transistor is therefore V3 = -5.7V ( just 1Vbe drop from -5V)

The current through the 100+900 ohm is therefore I1 = 9.3V/1K = 9.3mA.

From (2), we know Ic = Ie, this means I2 = 9.3mA.

V2= 15V- (500ohm X 0.0093A) = 10.35V.

V4 is 0.7V lower than V2 = 10.35-0.7 = 9.65V
.

With 9.3mA, r'e of transistor is about 26ohm/9.3 which is about 3ohm. We can assume to be 0ohm.

Gain of the stage is 500ohm/100ohm = 5. But remember the gain is inverted, so the gain is -5. This should be good to about 5% or so which in this case, is good enough.
 
  • #55
yungman said:
I am absolutely surprised what you said about college EE major requirements. Only two classes of analog! I used to wonder what I missed not having an EE degree as my degree was biochem. Now I am grateful I did NOT take EE as my major! All these years, it's like learn when I need it. I kept changing jobs to different facet and study along the way to gain knowledge. From working for LeCroy designing ADC modules ( like digital scope), the Exar designing analog IC, to Seimens designing ultrasound imaging machine then to mass spectrometers then RF communication. Just kept changing fields and study along the way. So I just look at what is needed in the jobs.

What are they studying in the 4 years? All digital, embedded, firmware, FPGA etc.? In today's high speed mixed signal world, these are just part of the knowledge. Without high speed analog design, you won't go too far with just digital knowledge.
Semiconductor physics is good, but in my IC design job, I learned it from the older edition of this in 1984:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/8126521481/?tag=pfamazon01-20
It had a lot of circuit design, current mirror, differential pairs and all that. Anyone that took a course in semiconductor design should have plenty of circuit experience. I have to say, even in designing analog IC, I did not use those semiconductor physics, it's just "good to know". Actually design was just like normal circuit, you just use the available transistors, their limits. Using their resistors and get matching by layout etc. To me, it's just design with different available parts from discrete circuits. But of cause, I am talking about 30+ years ago, things might have been changed.
Note that many EE departments do require many analog courses to graduate (look at Cal Poly's curriculum, for example)- I was just pointing out that Stanford (which you had specifically complained about) did not require many. They do offer a number of electives in electronics, though, and their program provides students with many electives to decide for themselves what kind of degree they want. The program I went through was similar - and the next analog course I didn't take used Grey and Meyer for the text. Perhaps I would have understood electronics if I had taken that class. You might shake your head to learn that the Gray and Meyer course had a corequisite that mostly covered device physics, and the pre-requisites for both courses included an upper-division course in quantum and solid-state physics.

What did we study in 4 years? Well, some students did indeed take a bunch of analog courses. But some specialized in signal processing and communications, others in lasers/optics/quantum electronics, others in computer engineering/software/firmware, etc. As I mentioned earlier, I took a number of electives in electromagnetics, microwaves, antennas, radar, math and physics. The department explicitly told us that their goal was to prepare us for graduate school, and at least in my case they succeeded. I knew quite a few students who went on to top grad schools, but it probably wasn't the best program for some folks that were more interested in practice than theory.

To be honest, I chose to major in EE because I had fallen in love with electromagnetic theory by the time we had to declare and the end of our sophomore year. I had already taken the intro digital and intro circuits classes, and figured I could tolerate one more course on analog electronics if it meant I could take all of the fun applied E&M courses. If the department had required a ton of electronics courses I would have chosen the engineering physics major instead. Today I find circuits more interesting than I did as a young man.

jasonRF
 
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  • #56
jasonRF said:
Note that many EE departments do require many analog courses to graduate (look at Cal Poly's curriculum, for example)- I was just pointing out that Stanford (which you had specifically complained about) did not require many. They do offer a number of electives in electronics, though, and their program provides students with many electives to decide for themselves what kind of degree they want. The program I went through was similar - and the next analog course I didn't take used Grey and Meyer for the text. Perhaps I would have understood electronics if I had taken that class. You might shake your head to learn that the Gray and Meyer course had a corequisite that mostly covered device physics, and the pre-requisites for both courses included an upper-division course in quantum and solid-state physics.

What did we study in 4 years? Well, some students did indeed take a bunch of analog courses. But some specialized in signal processing and communications, others in lasers/optics/quantum electronics, others in computer engineering/software/firmware, etc. As I mentioned earlier, I took a number of electives in electromagnetics, microwaves, antennas, radar, math and physics. The department explicitly told us that their goal was to prepare us for graduate school, and at least in my case they succeeded. I knew quite a few students who went on to top grad schools, but it probably wasn't the best program for some folks that were more interested in practice than theory.

To be honest, I chose to major in EE because I had fallen in love with electromagnetic theory by the time we had to declare and the end of our sophomore year. I had already taken the intro digital and intro circuits classes, and figured I could tolerate one more course on analog electronics if it meant I could take all of the fun applied E&M courses. If the department had required a ton of electronics courses I would have chosen the engineering physics major instead. Today I find circuits more interesting than I did as a young man.

jasonRF
RF/EM was my ultimate passion, sadly I was too old when I studied them. I studied RF and microwave first starting in 2000. I used this book as my main book:
https://www.amazon.com/RF-Circuit-Design-Theory-Applications/dp/0130953237/ref=sr_1_2?crid=15X01H109J25B&dchild=1&keywords=rf+circuit+design+ludwig&qid=1596165099&sprefix=rf+circuit+design+l,aps,218&sr=8-2&tag=pfamazon01-20
with this as second book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471448788/?tag=pfamazon01-20
I have others RF books also as supplements. I've been to Standford bookstore. I have more RF, couple lines type of books than their bookstore! I managed to do all the Smith Chart, distribute elements designs without studying EM( remember, I did not go to school).

Actually after I retired in 2005, I decided to study back my long wish of Electromagnetics. But I still have to studied through all the multi-variables, ODE. I actually spent almost 2 years away from electronics studying these. Then I went wild and actually studied PDE using the older version of this
https://www.amazon.com/Partial-Differential-Equations-Boundary-Problems/dp/0486807371/ref=sr_1_2?crid=320DZW9WLCL2E&dchild=1&keywords=partial+differential+equations+asmar&qid=1596165555&sprefix=partial+differential+equations+as,aps,210&sr=8-2&tag=pfamazon01-20

Then I felt I was ready for EM. I used this as my main book that I spent a year or two on as main book:
https://www.amazon.com/Field-Wave-Electromagnetics-David-Cheng/dp/0201128195/ref=sr_1_fkmr3_1?crid=39YVMT9KRBFZJ&dchild=1&keywords=field+and+wave+electromagnetics,+second+edition,+by+david+k.+cheng&qid=1596165683&sprefix=fields+and+waves+electromagnetics+cheng,aps,229&sr=8-1-fkmr3&tag=pfamazon01-20
I first actually communicated with the professor in San Jose State and he was kind enough to give me the problems and answer for his class using this book, but it's too simple, so I followed Cheng's book. But I worked out more of the assignments of SJ State.
https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Applied-Electromagnetics-Fawwaz-Ulaby/dp/0132413264/ref=sr_1_3?crid=18WVWA2HNBJPD&dchild=1&keywords=ulaby+electromagnetics&qid=1596165844&sprefix=electromagnetic+ulaby,aps,223&sr=8-3&tag=pfamazon01-20

After that, I jump into Antanna design using this as my first book:
https://www.amazon.com/Antenna-Theory-Analysis-Design-3rd/dp/047166782X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=16RGSLRET3K1V&dchild=1&keywords=antenna+theory+balanis&qid=1596166013&sprefix=antenna+theory+balanis,aps,219&sr=8-2&tag=pfamazon01-20

Sadly, age catching up with me. I found myself forgetting what I learned just few weeks ago. I kept very good notes, so many times I read back my notes, I said "did I write all these?!". I read through the notes, it's all there, I did understand the material, it was good notes! At that point of time, I was quite burnt out and more important thing is...For what?! I have no intention to go back to work, why spent hours a day studying these! It's the hardest thing I study in my life particular self study.....Then forgot about it! Finally I quit in 2013 and move onto designing first guitar amps and then hifi power amps. They of cause a lot easier, I treat it as crossword puzzle like other seniors. Today, I am learning C++ in the other part of the Physics forums. No offense, it's a WHOLE LOT EASIER, those firmware, FPGA, microcontrollers are so much easier. I had no choice in my career to design a lot of those as we were mixed signal and I was the only one in the company to do that. I hope I can keep learn and learn to the day I drop!
 
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  • #57
I do want to share what my interviews look like (as a candidate) normally for RF engineering positions. I'm still considered entry-level approaching mid-level with a little over 2 years of experience. Most of the interviews I've had are 6-8 hours long and I'll be interviewed by 4-8 people usually each one will have 1 to 1 although I've had groups of 2-3 people. Maybe it'll help someone else.

I am almost always asked to graph the step response of a RC circuit. I've been asked a few times to do it for a LC circuit.

I am almost always asked op-amp questions. Sometimes I'll be asked for all the different configurations including active filters, integrators, and differentiators. They might also give me periodic square waves or a step as the input and ask for what the output looks like for these. At one of the big tech companies they did ask for time domain response at each node, and the interviewer tried "breaking" the op-amp with diodes in very unusual places; it was not a practical circuit, but they were checking for understanding. All the interviews I've been on using KCL and KVL was very well-received. Sometimes they will ask a question related to having the output voltage being bigger than the supplies (say for instance your maths tell you it's going to be 5V, but the op-amp has a 3V supply), and also strategies to resolve this problem. Usually "reducing the gain" or "increasing the supply" is an acceptable answer, but they might follow up with an additional approach to solving that problem.

They'll ask about S-parameters. I'll typically have to draw a 2-port system and describe what each S-parameter by drawing out the arrows and labeling. They might ask for a 3-port system. I might be asked to draw any S-parameter plots for a broad or narrow band system. Sometimes they will ask me to cascade S-parameters. I think they run into a lot of people who thinking multiplying is okay (it's not). This might lead to talking about Y and Z-parameters, and ABCD matrix, but that doesn't happen always.

At the very least I am almost always asked about noise figure and linearity, and sometimes what it looks like on instruments such as a spectrum analyzer (or how to measure it). This is a good spot to trick candidates into asking about measuring the third order intercept; also to compare third order intercept to P1dB. Big tech companies will usually ask about units of noise and how noise is measured for a PSD. They might ask where in the chain would you prefer the best or worst noise figure and linearity in a chain; this may or may not lead into architecture questions. If it does, then you might have design a transciever on the fly and perform a link-budget. They usually do not provide the values I have to make it up roughly from the systems I've seen. This part of the interview is tricky because you might be "right", but for the "wrong" field (aerospace/defense versus consumer electronics). They might also ask which device in the chain is usually the least linear; what each filter does and how to roughly define its bandwidth. Only one place has asked a lot of questions about modulation schemes.

I'm always asked about layout and its flow. Particularly the cross-section of microstrip, stripline, and sometimes (grounded) CPW. They'll usually ask something like "If the characteristic impedance is too low we'll say ##30 \Omega## then how to correct it. You can do anything." Then you'll respond by how you can change the geometry of those transmission lines ie. if the impedance is too low you correct it by thinning the lines or thickening the dielectric, or (for CPW) widening the slot; you can choose a material with a lower dielectric constant. Sometimes they'll ask for "typical" dielectric constants and loss tangents. I'll also be asked how to choose which transmission line I'll use in a design (what are the advantages and disadvantages of each one). I've been asked once to draw the fields. I've also been asked to show what a stack-up looks like usually a 4-6 layer one and how to choose that as well, which layers will be dedicated to signal, power, and ground. A few places have asked about the process of making that stack-up and DFM questions.

I'll be asked about which tools I use. Any layout or simulation tools. This part usually also gets scrutiny even though you've disclosed which tools you use on your resume. Say for instance if you do layout usually with "layout tool 1" and you're interviewing for a position that uses "layout tool 2", then even though one person on the team thought the layout concepts were good enough there are still always people who do not care; it'll be difficult to convince them that you can learn and translate your knowledge between tools. I recommend if you are interested in working for a company find out which tools they use and try to get your hands on it; at the very least the (legal) free versions say for instance if they find Altium desirable then the free counterpart is CircuitMaker. I don't see this problem when talking about simulations, but I'm considered very proficient with many of them including the ones I've heard others call "the gold standard." For both layout and simulations you might be able to find workshops on the company's website.

Modern RF engineers still use Smith charts. I've never had an RF interview that does not use a Smith chart. This is usually a brief 5-10 minutes of the interview. I have no idea why many of my older coworkers will try dazzling me with it as if it were some mysterious object they got from an archaeology dig site in a seventh world country. The most typical questions are asking to create a matching network given a load; I also be asked questions about short and open stubs and compare them for when they are less than, equal to, and greater than ##\lambda/4##. I'm rarely asked about Q factor and resonance although I've been asked; I've also been asked what the typical impedance (orders of magnitude) at different terminals of transistor looks like.

I have layout experience and so they'll continue with layout asking about a few approaches, component placement, and they might draw out a few areas of a trace or plane and ask you a few questions about it ie. they'll draw a trace going over a gap. I've had components placed for differential pairs. Roughly where I'll want to put "noisy" parts, and components such as LDOs or PAs known to get hot.

When LDOs get brought up sometimes we steer into switched DC-DC converters. I've had derive a buck, boost, and buck-boost during the interview. One of the big tech companies also asked me to show switch implementation (instead of using an ideal switch in drawing to use diodes and transistors). When the transistors get brought up here they might ask for the drawing of the cross-section of a MOSFET; they'll also ask about parasitics and how it affects the converter, and whether I would choose a pmos or nmos in certain areas and why. Because we're talking about converters we might talk more about PI and how to choose passives such as bypass capacitors.

For these rest I've probably been asked once or twice... do bode plots and Nyquist contours. Also using data converters I might even be asked to draw something conceptual or a block diagram of something connected to a data converter. A bit on sampling theory and folding. Some problems on measuring very tiny resistors or components on a layout (what might be wrong if I'm measuring ##500\Omega## when I was expecting ##50m\Omega##. I'll be asked about protocols like SPI or I2C. Someone had me use the propagation constant of a distributed elements to give them ##C_{eff}## and ##L_{eff}##. I've been asked about NEXT and FEXT also how to minimize or eliminate that. I've been asked how to convert differential into single ended. I've been asked coding questions; usually C or python is good enough. I've noticed that a common programming question will be play with the ++ or -- in front of the variable inside of a loop to see how the answer changes (if at all), and also logical operators including bit-wise ones. One interview asked me to prepare a presentation on a past project and I had to present it. Another interview (it was for an application engineer role) asked me to teach the interviewer something I was very comfortable with, which was surprising, but fun :). I think these last two I would prepare something even if you don't bring the powerpoint for the past project they might ask about it and it's great to refresh on what the project was, what challenges there were, and how you overcame it or why you couldn't. Trying to come up with something to teach during the interview can be scary so I would have a go to topic.

I had a bad gpa. I am always asked about my gpa. Big tech companies usually ask for you transcript; if not during the interview, then prior to getting an offer letter or at the very least when you are onboarding (if you are).

Salary expectations are almost always asked. I've seen general advice online is usually to try and dodge that question. I've never been successful in dodging it. Definitely come in with a number in mind and if you want to try dodging it then go for it, but if you can't then at least you came prepared.
 
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