What is meant by friction loss?

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    Friction Loss
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of friction loss in fluid dynamics, particularly in the context of fluid flow through constricted pipes. Participants explore the nature of pressure loss, its permanence, and the implications for liquid molecules under varying pressure conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the pressure loss in a constricted pipe is permanent and seeks to understand the nature of this pressure loss, including its conversion to heat and the behavior of liquid molecules when hydrostatic pressure drops to zero.
  • Another participant explains that the pressure drop is attributed to the viscosity of the liquid, noting that energy loss is particularly significant in turbulent flow and that turbulence can lead to heating of the liquid and pipe.
  • A different participant acknowledges that while there is a certain amount of permanent friction loss in a constriction, some pressure can be recovered downstream, depending on the type of constriction.
  • This participant also discusses the conversion of energy to heat, sound, and vibrations, and mentions potential issues like cavitation and boiling when pressure drops excessively in a liquid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the permanence of pressure loss and the recovery of pressure downstream, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about fluid behavior under different flow regimes, the specific conditions leading to turbulence, and the definitions of pressure recovery in various types of constrictions.

sameeralord
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Hello everyone,

Quick question. When there is a pipe and you constrict it there is higher pressure loss. Is this pressure lost permanent? What is this pressure loss, is it loss as heat, are liquid molecules converted to heat, are they lost? What happens to liquid molecules if the hydrostatic pressure drops to zero do they stop or do they still move because of the kinetic energy? Thanks! :smile:
 
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The pressure drop is due to the viscosity of the liquid as it flows through constrictions in the pipe. The power loss (energy loss) is especially high when the flow becomes turbulent (Reynolds number above ~1000). The turbulence heats the water, and the pipe. The power loss becomes zero whenever the pressure drop reaches the hydrostatic value. There are on-line pressure drop calculators on the web. Here is one:

http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_pipe_friction.cfm

Bob S
 
sameeralord said:
Quick question. When there is a pipe and you constrict it there is higher pressure loss. Is this pressure lost permanent?
There is always going to be a certain amount of permanent friction loss in a constriction. However, depending on the type of constriction, some of the pressure can be recovered. You see this all the time in valves and venturis. There will be a very large drop at the vena contracta, but the pressure will recover to some intermediate value somewhere downstream. Again, the amount of recovery depends on the type of constriction.

sameeralord said:
What is this pressure loss, is it loss as heat, are liquid molecules converted to heat, are they lost? What happens to liquid molecules if the hydrostatic pressure drops to zero do they stop or do they still move because of the kinetic energy?
The energy usually gets converted to heat, sound and vibrations. If the pressure drops too much in a liquid, the liquid will vaporize and you run into issues like cavitation and boiling.
 
Thank you everyone!
 

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