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MarcAlexander
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Are there any areas of Chemistry that are dedicated to the study of elementary particles e.g.the Standard Model?
What is the Chemistry equivalent of Particle Physics?
- Thread starter MarcAlexander
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In summary: P-31 --> Si-32 + e- + energythis was the one that was used to detect the neutrino, but the Ar-37 reaction was used to make sure that the neutrino flux was the same at Earth as in the Sun.I guess it is blurry, but it is clearly radiochemistry.In summary, chemistry is primarily focused on studying things composed of atoms and does not typically research elementary particles separately unless they play a role in reactions. Chemistry is considered a subset of physics and many deeper answers, such as those related to elementary particles, are supplied by physics. However, there are certain branches of theoretical chemistry that do study some aspects of elementary particles, such as electrons, protons, or photons, that
- #2
Borek
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No, chemistry studies things that are composed of atoms. In most cases elementary particles (other than electrons and proton, which is in itself already a nuclei) can be safely ignored in chemistry. The only moment when they are important is when they carry energy that can start reactions, but even than they are not researched separately.
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That Neuron
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Chemistry is simply a practical subset field of physics, it is more of an applied science than a pure one, so if it doesn't affect the application of chemical theories it doesn't come into the chemical viewpoint.
really all science is physics, its simply broken down into chemistry Biology and physics to simplify it, but they are not different sciences, so in many ways the deeper answers (like that of elementary particles) are supplied by physics.
really all science is physics, its simply broken down into chemistry Biology and physics to simplify it, but they are not different sciences, so in many ways the deeper answers (like that of elementary particles) are supplied by physics.
- #4
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That is just wrong on many levels. And arrogant. Ask a ecosystems biologist whether their science is just physics, broken down to simplify it. Or whether they get any meaningful answers from elementary particle physics.That Neuron said:
As a physicist-cum-systems engineer, I get to work with lots of different groups on spacecraft design. Avionics engineers think the avionics system is the most important part of the spacecraft . To guidance, navigation, and controls specialists, the spacecraft revolves around the GN&C subsystems. Structural engineers think that their structures are the heart of the spacecraft . And so on. Occasionally the arrogance of each group gets in the way of getting things done.
This comment is also deserving of some comic relief.
- #5
That Neuron
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D H said:That is just wrong on many levels. And arrogant. Ask a ecosystems biologist whether their science is just physics, broken down to simplify it. Or whether they get any meaningful answers from elementary particle physics.
HAHAHAHAHA!
But I understand why you think looking at something physically is not effective when applying it... YES! its not necessary to use the QM equation when looking at some concept in Biochemistry.
But that doesn't change the fact that it is all elementary particle physics, does it?
Besides... Math is physics... isn't it? I mean is there some "Math-land?" I don't think so... because all Math is conceived in our brain... A physical system.
But I did enjoy those pictures hahahaha
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Mike H
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D H said:
Thoroughly concur on this point. I think there's this notion that since we can look into the depths of space, bang nuclei into one another at enormous energies to probe the inner structure of matter, and the like that other problems are simpler or better understood. People are still arguing vigorously in the literature about a number of what might be considered more accessible problems like the nature and dynamics of glass and the glass transition, for example.
That Neuron said:
Depends. There are people who wish to understand enzyme mechanisms in intimate and exquisite detail. They will use mixed quantum mechanics/molecular mechanics methods - with varying amounts of approximation - to study the reaction computationally.
I don't think anyone is questioning that it's all elementary particles interacting, in the end. It's just that looking at, say, my current efforts to understand certain aspects of signal transduction is probably better served with methods that don't require explicitly dealing with every single electron and nucleus in the cell. :)
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kaonyx
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hey guys, don't forget our friend the photon! The photon is right at the heart of chemistry.
- #8
juanrga
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Some branches of theoretical chemistry study aspects of elementary particles as electrons, protons, or photons that are not studied by physicists. Think of photochemists and of the entire branch of photochemistry!
There are physical chemists as M. Quack who design experiments to test the standard model with a precision beyond typical physicists experiments.
Other theoretical chemists as Nobel winner for chemistry Ilya Prigogine have gone beyond quantum field theory (the foundation of the Standard Model) and proposed a generalized quantum mechanics. He and his group developed this generalization for studying those aspects of chemistry that could not be explained using the Standard Model.
There are physical chemists as M. Quack who design experiments to test the standard model with a precision beyond typical physicists experiments.
Other theoretical chemists as Nobel winner for chemistry Ilya Prigogine have gone beyond quantum field theory (the foundation of the Standard Model) and proposed a generalized quantum mechanics. He and his group developed this generalization for studying those aspects of chemistry that could not be explained using the Standard Model.
- #9
martianman
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D H said:
I believe he was referring to simplification as a description of a division of labor within science. All of science is the study of the universe; different disciplines study different parts of the universe, and some disciplines study specific portions of "higher" disciplines.
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enkiddu
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Don't forget radiochemistry/nuclear chemistry. It was radiochemistry that first allowed us to measure and identify the neutrino.
- #11
Borek
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enkiddu said:
Was it? I recall it was detection of two gamma rays of specific energies that was a fingerprint of the neutrino presence. This is hardly radiochemistry.
That being said, the border between physics and chemistry is blurry.
- #12
enkiddu
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blurry indeed. so there were a couple of studies at the same time. one of the studies looked at the reaction (i'll use η for neutrino here)
η + Cl-37 --> Ar-37 + e-
They then had to separate about the 3 Ar atoms from 10E30 C2Cl4 atoms in the tank. That is the blurry lines of radiochemistry
Another reaction looked at the reaction of the neutrinos to form a positron emitter and measure the 511keV via coincidence techniques.
FYI i really don't know these off the top of my head, but just covered this chapter in a text.
:)
η + Cl-37 --> Ar-37 + e-
They then had to separate about the 3 Ar atoms from 10E30 C2Cl4 atoms in the tank. That is the blurry lines of radiochemistry
Another reaction looked at the reaction of the neutrinos to form a positron emitter and measure the 511keV via coincidence techniques.
FYI i really don't know these off the top of my head, but just covered this chapter in a text.
:)
- #13
juanrga
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Borek said:
Cowan and Reines used an organic scintillator the first time. And in second try they used cadmium chloride and the Cd nuclear reaction.
Check also Radiochemistry and nuclear chemistry By Gregory R. Choppin, Jan-Olov Liljenzin, Jan Rydberg
FAQ: What is the Chemistry equivalent of Particle Physics?
1. What is the difference between Chemistry and Particle Physics?
Chemistry is the study of matter and its interactions, while Particle Physics is the study of the fundamental particles and forces that make up matter. Chemistry focuses on the macroscopic level, while Particle Physics delves into the microscopic level.
2. What are the main areas of study in the Chemistry equivalent of Particle Physics?
The main areas of study in the Chemistry equivalent of Particle Physics are quantum mechanics, atomic and molecular structure, and chemical bonding. These areas help explain the behavior and properties of particles at the atomic and molecular level.
3. How does the periodic table in Chemistry relate to Particle Physics?
The periodic table in Chemistry is a visual representation of the elements and their properties, which are determined by the number and arrangement of particles within atoms. This directly relates to Particle Physics, as it studies the fundamental particles that make up atoms and how they interact with each other.
4. How do experiments in Chemistry differ from those in Particle Physics?
Experiments in Chemistry often involve mixing substances and observing the resulting reactions, while experiments in Particle Physics involve colliding particles and observing the reactions and particles produced. Additionally, experiments in Particle Physics are often conducted at high energies and require specialized equipment.
5. What are some real-world applications of the Chemistry equivalent of Particle Physics?
The Chemistry equivalent of Particle Physics has numerous real-world applications, such as in the development of new materials and drugs, understanding the properties of semiconductors used in electronics, and developing renewable energy sources. It also helps in developing technologies such as MRI machines and particle accelerators.