What is the impact of storms on submarines?

In summary: What about strong waves? Let's say a rogue wave? Doesn't wave energy decrease the deeper you go?In summary, traveling in a submarine within a depth of 100 to 600 feet deep or 4 to 19 atmospheres would not be affected by hurricanes or strong winds on the surface, but could be at risk for tsunami's if close to the point of origin. Tsunamis are the result of a lot of energy already in the water and can be a hazard at any depth. Surface waves do not create conditions for submarines beyond stirring up material on the seafloor. The most important factor on a military submarine is the extended duration life support systems, which allows them to stay underwater for decades.
  • #1
Robert House
29
4
Here is a scenario to further explain. Let's say I am traveling inside of a submarine. I travel within a depth of 100 to 600 feet deep or 4 to 19 atmospheres. How would I and my submarine be affected if there were a hurricane, tsunami, or hurricane above the ocean.

Furthermore, does the strength of ocean currents decrease deeper you go?
 
Earth sciences news on Phys.org
  • #2
Strong winds at the surface can cause unusual currents in the water (a storm surge), at the surface,
but I doubt the effect extends to deep water beyond say around 10m.
As for ocean currents in general they tend to be very much the product of local geography,
so what applies in the N Atlantic (for example), could be very different to what applies in the Southern ocean near Antartica.
 
  • Like
Likes Robert House
  • #3
Robert House said:
Here is a scenario to further explain. Let's say I am traveling inside of a submarine. I travel within a depth of 100 to 600 feet deep or 4 to 19 atmospheres. How would I and my submarine be affected if there were a hurricane, tsunami, or hurricane above the ocean.

Furthermore, does the strength of ocean currents decrease deeper you go?
Welcome to the PF.

Is this a military submarine? If so, the biggest impact on operations doesn't come from any small change in the currents. I can think of at least two other important effects. Can yoiu say what they may be? :smile:
 
  • #4
berkeman said:
Welcome to the PF.

Is this a military submarine? If so, the biggest impact on operations doesn't come from any small change in the currents. I can think of at least two other important effects. Can yoiu say what they may be? :smile:

It could be a military submarine or a more recreational submarine.

Yep! What are those effects?
 
  • #5
Robert House said:
Yep! What are those effects?
You tell us... :smile:
 
  • #6
rootone said:
Strong winds at the surface can cause unusual currents in the water (a storm surge), at the surface,
but I doubt the effect extends to deep water beyond say around 10m.
As for ocean currents in general they tend to be very much the product of local geography,
so what applies in the N Atlantic (for example), could be very different to what applies in the Southern ocean near Antartica.

What about tsunami's and hurricanes? That wouldn't affect submarine travel deeper than 10 meters either?
 
  • #7
Robert House said:
What about tsunami's and hurricanes? That wouldn't affect submarine travel deeper than 10 meters either?
One of those would. Which one?
 
  • #8
berkeman said:
You tell us... :smile:

Oh. Didn't know you were asking me. Is it communications and marine life interference?
 
  • #9
berkeman said:
One of those would. Which one?

I'm going to guess tsunami. Hurricanes usually affect the first few meters at most. But that would depend on the size since some hurricanes are stronger than others.
 
  • #10
Robert House said:
Oh. Didn't know you were asking me. Is it communications and marine life interference?
Not exactly communication... What else is important on a military submarine?
 
  • #11
berkeman said:
Not exactly communication... What else is important on a military submarine?

The extended duration life support systems is the most important on any submarine.
 
  • #12
Robert House said:
What about tsunami's and hurricanes? That wouldn't affect submarine travel deeper than 10 meters either?
I don't think a hurricane would, water is much denser than air, so it takes a lot of wind kinetic energy to move water a relatively small amount.
Tsunamis on the other hand are the result of a lot of energy which already is in the water, and probably could be a hazard for a submarine at any depth,
if the submarine is somewhat close to the point of origin, such as an undersea Earthquake.
 
  • Like
Likes Robert House
  • #13
rootone said:
I don't think a hurricane would, water is much denser than air, so it takes a lot of wind kenetic energy to move water a relatively small amount.
Tsunamis on the other hand are the result of a lot of energy which already is in the water, and probably could be a hazard for a submarine at any depth,
if the submarine is somewhat close to the point of origin, such as an undersea Earthquake.

What about strong waves? Let's say a rogue wave? Doesn't wave energy decreases the deeper you go?
 
  • #14
Waves on the sea are surface phenomena.
They may give an indication of what is happening below the surface, but can't create the conditions, beyond stirring up some of the seafloor material when the wave breaks upon arrival at a shoreline.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Robert House
  • #15
Robert House said:
The extended duration life support systems is the most important on any submarine.
Pffft. :smile: Military submarines can stay underwater for decades. The only limiting factor would be food, and even after their standard load of great food runs out, they probably have at least a year of MREs stored. They probably have a way to harvest fish underwater at some point, when necessary, but I'm just guessing at that. So no, that's not what I was referring to.

Related hint -- Have you read Tom Clancy's novel, "The Hunt for Red October"? Great book. :smile:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71REkT0NehL.jpg
71REkT0NehL.jpg
 
  • Like
Likes Robert House and davenn
  • #16
Robert House said:
What about tsunami's and hurricanes?

Tsunami's , tho they travel through the full depth of the ocean/sea, their effects out in the deep ocean are negligible
Ships on the surface don't even feel their passing. I don't have any references for submarines, but I wouldn't expect the
effects to be anything significantly different than it is for ships on the surface.
Tsunami's are only evident when the water shallows and the waves build up in heightDave
 
  • #17
rootone said:
Waves on the sea are surface phenomena.

only the wind driven waves

see my earlier post re tsunamisD
 
  • #18
berkeman said:
Pffft. :smile: Military submarines can stay underwater for decades. The only limiting factor would be food, and even after their standard load of great food runs out, they probably have at least a year of MREs stored. They probably have a way to harvest fish underwater at some point, when necessary, but I'm just guessing at that. So no, that's not what I was referring to.

Related hint -- Have you read Tom Clancy's novel, "The Hunt for Red October"? Great book. :smile:

yeah a great story, try and watch the movie at least once a year :smile:

actually pretty much all T.C's novels are very goodDave
 
  • Like
Likes berkeman
  • #19
berkeman said:
Pffft. :smile: Military submarines can stay underwater for decades. The only limiting factor would be food, and even after their standard load of great food runs out, they probably have at least a year of MREs stored. They probably have a way to harvest fish underwater at some point, when necessary, but I'm just guessing at that. So no, that's not what I was referring to.

Related hint -- Have you read Tom Clancy's novel, "The Hunt for Red October"? Great book. :smile:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71REkT0NehL.jpg
71REkT0NehL.jpg

Just requested the book. Any more good submarine novel recommendations?
 
  • #20
davenn said:
see my earlier post re tsunamis
I agree in the case of tsunami you have a pressure wave inside the water at all depths, regardless of 'normal' waves at the surface.
I would not to want to be in a submerged submarine close to the epicenter of a big seafloor earthquake.
 
  • Like
Likes davenn
  • #21
Robert House said:
Just requested the book.
After you read the book, watch the film version. That's the right order, IMO. :smile:
Robert House said:
Any more good submarine novel recommendations?
For entertainment value and intellectual challenges, I recommend Crimson Tide, but The Hunt for Red October is much more about the questions you've asked in this thread... :smile:

http://media1.picsearch.com/is?aKQZCxYYdTOph5A9IUgeBNxsH1E54kSbznlyWyIdIcI&height=304
is?aKQZCxYYdTOph5A9IUgeBNxsH1E54kSbznlyWyIdIcI&height=304.jpg
 
  • #22
rootone said:
I agree in the case of tsunami you have a pressure wave inside the water at all depths, regardless of 'normal' waves at the surface.
I would not to want to be in a submerged submarine close to the epicenter of a big seafloor earthquake.

Are certain bodies of water are more vulnerable to tsunamis?
 
  • #23
Robert House said:
Are certain bodies of water are more vulnerable to tsunamis?
Yes, Google Tsunami Alert Zones...
 
  • Like
Likes davenn
  • #24
rootone said:
I would not to want to be in a submerged submarine close to the epicenter of a big seafloor earthquake.

the only thing a ship or submarine feels from a close by earthquake is the pulse of the P wave as the S and other waves don't travel through the ocean
people in boats often report that the passing of the P wave feels like the boat had run aground

it would be interesting to know the effect on a ship or sub that was right over the fault when it ruptured as to if they would feel the
effect of the drop or pushing up of the ocean
 
  • #25
Yes there are parts of the Earth where undersea quakes are not rare, and nearby land is vulnerable.
Low lying islands in Indonesia are some of the most at risk
 
  • #26
Robert House said:
Are certain bodies of water are more vulnerable to tsunamis?

berkeman said:
Yes, Google Tsunami Alert Zones...
yup, or anywhere there are significant undersea fault zones or volcanic islands
this includes all of the Pacific Basin, Indian Ocean, Mediterranean Sea for starters

EDIT: ... I should include the 3 primary causes of tsunamis
undersea earthquake or one on land close to shore
undersea volcanic eruption
landslide either undersea or one on land close to shore that goes into the sea

classic example of the last one was a huge mountain side landslide that went into Lituya Bay, Alaska
landslide that produced the worlds largest recorded tsunami ... 1720 ft

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Litya+bay+tsunami&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IENTTR&conversationid=D
 
Last edited:
  • #27
davenn said:
yup, or anywhere there are significant undersea fault zones or volcanic islands
this includes all of the Pacific Basin, Indian Ocean, Mediterranean Sea for starters

EDIT: ... I should include the 3 primary causes of tsunamis
undersea earthquake or one on land close to shore
undersea volcanic eruption
landslide either undersea or one on land close to shore that goes into the sea

classic example of the last one was a huge mountain side landslide that went into Lituya Bay, Alaska
landslide that produced the worlds largest recorded tsunami ... 1720 ft

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Litya+bay+tsunami&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IENTTR&conversationid=D

So a Submarine would theoretically be unaffected if it were far enough away from the shoreline.
 
  • Like
Likes davenn
  • #28
Robert House said:
So a Submarine would theoretically be unaffected if it were far enough away from the shoreline.
What do you think...?

(Can you sense now how the PF works...?) :smile:
 
  • #29
Robert House said:
So a Submarine would theoretically be unaffected if it were far enough away from the shoreline.

out in open ocean, yes
an example ... the big Japan quake of 2011 ( M9.0) was centred around 130km offshore of NE Honshu
but it's waves only really became noticeable around 2 - 5 km offshore. Further out is was no different than
being in a large natural swell of a few metresD
 
  • Like
Likes Robert House
  • #30
berkeman said:
What do you think...?

(Can you sense now how the PF works...?) :smile:

oops ... we were typing at the same time ... sorry
 
  • Like
Likes berkeman
  • #31
davenn said:
oops ... we were typing at the same time ... sorry
Oh sure, make me go back and undelete my post... :smile:
 
  • Like
Likes davenn
  • #32
berkeman said:
What do you think...?

(Can you sense now how the PF works...?) :smile:
.
You're trying to make me think/work my way to the answer rather than just giving it to me.

I like it!
 
  • #33
Robert House said:
.
You're trying to make me think/work my way to the answer rather than just giving it to me.

I like it!
Perfect. Welcome to the PF :biggrin:
 
  • Like
Likes 1oldman2
  • #34
BTW, the reason I suggested the order = book, movie for The Hunt For Red October was because of how some nuances in the book were handled in the movie. If you have the time, I think that's the best order for enjoying them both in series. They are both great.

But, to save time, I'd now recommend watching the movie first to get some answers to your questions, and for entertainment. The book is still good to follow up with, since Clancy is so great at weaving military/technical details into multiple story lines at once. What an artist.
 
  • Like
Likes davenn
  • #35
berkeman said:
BTW, the reason I suggested the order = book, movie for The Hunt For Red October was because of how some nuances in the book were handled in the movie. If you have the time, I think that's the best order for enjoying them both in series. They are both great.

But, to save time, I'd now recommend watching the movie first to get some answers to your questions, and for entertainment. The book is still good to follow up with, since Clancy is so great at weaving military/technical details into multiple story lines at once. What an artist.

I requested both the book and movie from the library. Any other great Tom Clancy novels you recommend?
 
<h2>1. What types of storms can impact submarines?</h2><p>Submarines can be impacted by various types of storms, including hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones, and severe thunderstorms. These storms can produce high winds, heavy rain, and rough seas, all of which can pose a danger to submarines.</p><h2>2. How do storms affect the navigation of submarines?</h2><p>Storms can make it difficult for submarines to navigate due to reduced visibility and rough seas. This can make it challenging for the crew to accurately track their location and avoid potential hazards, such as shallow waters or other vessels.</p><h2>3. Can storms damage a submarine?</h2><p>Yes, storms can cause damage to submarines, especially if they are severe. High winds and rough seas can cause structural damage to the exterior of the submarine, and heavy rain can lead to flooding inside the vessel. In extreme cases, a storm can even cause a submarine to sink.</p><h2>4. How do submarines prepare for storms?</h2><p>Submarines have advanced technology and procedures in place to help them prepare for and navigate through storms. This can include monitoring weather patterns, adjusting course or depth to avoid the worst of the storm, and securing equipment and crew members to prevent damage or injury.</p><h2>5. What are the risks to the crew during a storm on a submarine?</h2><p>The risks to the crew during a storm on a submarine can include physical injuries from rough seas or equipment damage, as well as psychological effects from being in a confined space during a dangerous situation. Proper training and preparation can help mitigate these risks and keep the crew safe.</p>

1. What types of storms can impact submarines?

Submarines can be impacted by various types of storms, including hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones, and severe thunderstorms. These storms can produce high winds, heavy rain, and rough seas, all of which can pose a danger to submarines.

2. How do storms affect the navigation of submarines?

Storms can make it difficult for submarines to navigate due to reduced visibility and rough seas. This can make it challenging for the crew to accurately track their location and avoid potential hazards, such as shallow waters or other vessels.

3. Can storms damage a submarine?

Yes, storms can cause damage to submarines, especially if they are severe. High winds and rough seas can cause structural damage to the exterior of the submarine, and heavy rain can lead to flooding inside the vessel. In extreme cases, a storm can even cause a submarine to sink.

4. How do submarines prepare for storms?

Submarines have advanced technology and procedures in place to help them prepare for and navigate through storms. This can include monitoring weather patterns, adjusting course or depth to avoid the worst of the storm, and securing equipment and crew members to prevent damage or injury.

5. What are the risks to the crew during a storm on a submarine?

The risks to the crew during a storm on a submarine can include physical injuries from rough seas or equipment damage, as well as psychological effects from being in a confined space during a dangerous situation. Proper training and preparation can help mitigate these risks and keep the crew safe.

Similar threads

  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
21
Views
806
Writing: Input Wanted Great Lakes Earth Map
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
2
Views
2K
Writing: Read Only Great Lakes Earth
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
22
Views
57K
  • General Discussion
Replies
1
Views
8K
Back
Top