What is the relationship between hull shape and form drag on sailboats?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harold Richard
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Drag Form
AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on the relationship between hull shape and form drag in sailboats, particularly how these factors affect performance when sailing at an angle. It highlights the complexity of sail propulsion, where the boat experiences both forward motion and side slip due to the lift generated by the sails. The conversation emphasizes the need for hull designs that optimize performance while heeled over, suggesting that high aspect keels and foils may provide better lift-to-drag ratios than asymmetric hulls. Participants also reference the importance of understanding the angle of attack of water flow over the hull to improve design efficiency. Overall, the thread seeks insights into enhancing sailboat performance in relation to drag and direction.
Harold Richard
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
I have been around Sailboats all my life. For the last 25 years I have built and raced r/c model sailboats.

My current question, I hope, can be more of a discussion than just a simple question and answer. Since I am into the design of all aspects of boat and sails. I have a question about the hull and form drag. Most tests of this require the hull in a static position with water running around the shape or computer sim. This is fine for a ship or powerboat that have a straight line propulsion system. This cannot be optimal for sail propulsion.

The Sails provide lift and propulsion in a wide angle of directions. This is the reason you would see a sailboat leaning to one side or the other while making headway. The amount of forward propulsion is exceeded by the amount of side force generated by the sail foil. The boat does not sail in an honest straight forward direction. It slips to the side as well as traveling forward. So there cannot be the same optimal hull shape value or calculation of both.

It is easy to see the drag effects or flow, of healing moment, in a static position by just rotating the hull over ten, twenty, or thirty degrees. This still does not satisfy my question. I want to be able to design a mono hull that will have a better performance area in relation to side slip or not sailing true to direction. Its like a car rounding a turn and having the tires lose traction and send the car out of position in relation to direction. This would change the effect of airflow around the car to something less than optimal.

Well, in a sailboat, this is the dominant relationship between direction and actual position of the boat. The water direction and actual hull direction are not in a direct bow to stearn relationship. I hope someone or two can jump in and provide me more insight and clarity. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
There are a lot of questions raised in the post. So, where do you want to start?

As for hulls that are efficient when heeled over and proceeding with an angle of attack… various approaches to "beating the rules" have long been tried, such as a shape which lengthens the waterline when the boat is heeled over. A fundamental constraint is that the boat needs to be symmetric if it must be equally able to sail on either tack. For multihulls (see: Hobie) it is possible to have hulls which are optimized for their respective tacks. However, the progression of boat design suggests that high aspect keels/foils provide better lift/drag than asymmetric hulls.
 
Harold Richard said:
Most tests of this require the hull in a static position with water running around the shape or computer sim. This is fine for a ship or powerboat that have a straight line propulsion system. This cannot be optimal for sail propulsion.
For sail craft you want to maximize the two lift/drag ratios at both interfaces: with the air and with the surface. The are both equally important for maximal speed:
http://www.onemetre.net/Design/CourseTheorem/CourseTheorem.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saili...heorem_and_Maximum_speed_course_sailing_angle
 
  • Like
Likes olivermsun
Thank you both. @olivermsun, yes, thank you, I am familiar with hull symmetry, length of waterline, etc. I should have stated that its the Angle of Attack of the water flow over the boat.
Mr. A.T. has provided a very nice link to what I was looking for. I guess this exactly what I was looking for as it provides a math foundation to work from. I am not sure what the exact angle of attack of flow over the hull is at this time. I can experiment to find an flow advantages within the "Course Theorem" "The pointing angle or sailing angle, beta b, is equal to the sum of these two drag angles e(H) and e(A). Thank you so much.
 
  • Like
Likes olivermsun
Thread 'Is 'Velocity of Transport' a Recognized Term in English Mechanics Literature?'
Here are two fragments from Banach's monograph in Mechanics I have never seen the term <<velocity of transport>> in English texts. Actually I have never seen this term being named somehow in English. This term has a name in Russian books. I looked through the original Banach's text in Polish and there is a Polish name for this term. It is a little bit surprising that the Polish name differs from the Russian one and also differs from this English translation. My question is: Is there...
This has been discussed many times on PF, and will likely come up again, so the video might come handy. Previous threads: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-a-treadmill-incline-just-a-marketing-gimmick.937725/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/work-done-running-on-an-inclined-treadmill.927825/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/how-do-we-calculate-the-energy-we-used-to-do-something.1052162/
Hi there, im studying nanoscience at the university in Basel. Today I looked at the topic of intertial and non-inertial reference frames and the existence of fictitious forces. I understand that you call forces real in physics if they appear in interplay. Meaning that a force is real when there is the "actio" partner to the "reactio" partner. If this condition is not satisfied the force is not real. I also understand that if you specifically look at non-inertial reference frames you can...
Back
Top