News What is wrong with the Islamic world?

[Aquamarine]

http://humphrys.humanists.net/islamic.world.html

 

[GENIERE]

Might have something to do with being a 14th century society.

 

[MiGUi]

When religion has the power, the fundamentalism rises and rises. In Europe we spend many efforts and many blood to reach the humanism, then the Renaissance and finally the religion was separated from governments.

Islamic religion says that anyone which don't believe in Alá and so its stuff must to be killed to save its soul, or else converted. This kind of religion can't coexist with us. The christian religion respects the other religions, but islamic don't.

In fact, all can be reduced to this: Is they, or us. They medieval society, or our modern society.

They will no stop until we were blown off. So we must destroy them before.

 

[Ethanol]

As a matter of fact islam does not say that anyone which don't believe in Alá and so its stuff must to be killed to save its soul, or else converted.
Why don't you study more about this religion. True muslims have the least to do with terrorist attacks. i was shocked by the 9/11 accident. My religion islam states that " there should no force used against people to make them change their religion.The choice of religion is birthright". Apart from this it is a rule that a muslim must convey the message of islam as much as possible as long as it does not offend people from other cultures and religions i.e shoving religious facts under their noses when they don't like it.

 

[MiGUi]

I know that all people is not fundamentalism, but I have read some passages on the Coran. You can say that the Bible has also very hard passages, but we don't use the Bible to make our laws. You also can find some precious passages in both, that is not all the book. The problem is the culture.

Where womans are treated like ****, human rights don't exist, and so and so and so... the islamic world lives in the 14th century. When the religion is mixed with politics, the things don't work good for freedom.

I know what I am saying, even you believe or not.

Here, they have to wear as its culture, be respected in his religion, but ours not.

Peace is needed, but respecting our cultures. If you come to an occidental country, respect the occidental culture. Don't try to change it.

 

[Hurkyl]

Even among the fundamentalists, few are extremists, and even among extremests, it is not the majority view that the west should be conquered.

 

[Janitor]

As a matter of fact islam does not say that anyone which don't believe in Alá and so its stuff must to be killed to save its soul, or else converted...

So what do you think about this website: http://www.conservativebookclub.com/Join/JoinBookPage.asp?prod_cd=C6077 which contains this item:

In a flash of truth, the author also confronts the clue-less politically correct crowd who spin an evil web of disinformation when they tell us that Islam is a religion of peace. This is a lie, for the Qu'ran in Sura 2:216 tells Muslims that war is good. The Qu'ran says in Sura 9:5 to slay those who will not believe in Islam and in Sura 5:33 to execute those who resist Islam.

What sort of spin do you personally choose to put on Sura 9:5?

 

[chem_tr]

As a muslim, I am shocked to see that non muslims and even some muslims have not understood what the True Islam is. Please view this website to see a more friendly, therefore, more correct approach of Islam, then go on discussing to reach the Ultimate Knowledge.

As a reply to dear Janitor's message, I can say that the author has to make much effort to understand the true meaning of Islam. War is the last option, and if we have to do this, then we might. True form of Islam considers the issue like that.

 

[Janitor]

Chem tr, the website you linked to says this:

Freedom is God's great gift to humans. The Quran, the Holy Scripture of Islam, mandates religious freedom in verse 2:256, "There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way." And in verse 18:29, "Proclaim: 'This is the truth from your Lord,' then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve".

In light of Sura 9:5 quoted in a post above, is it fair to conclude that the Qu'ran contains contradictions? If so, can it truly be the Word of a deity?

 

[chem_tr]

No, no, no. It is us who cannot understand the Holy Quran and make different suggestions about it. These two sites deal with the issue in their own points of view, I don't find it correct to say that one of them is the correct one.

There are sinister plots onto Quran in order not to be truly and wholeheartedly understood, if this would be done, you couldn't encounter a Muslim terrorist, killer, etc. I want to repeat it once again, for centuries, we, Muslims, have not understood Quran in the right way, and it caused us to be "fundamentalists". In one sura, it is translated that "If you don't work your mind, I'll shower filth on you". This sentence tries to say that if you stop the act of thinking, you cannot adapt yourselves to the new consequences; and religious sources suggest another thing, "you are wasting your life if two of your days are completely equal". I don't want to extend the post, so as a conclusion, if we learn how to think of and adapt ourselves, then the barbarous, disrespectful, and primitive scenes will vanish.

Take care.

 

[Aquamarine]

Why do 6 million Israelis consistently defeat over 150 million Arabs?

Does it make any sense that 4 million Israelis should force almost 2 billion "Muslims" to accept their unacceptable terms?

Why does India consistently defeat Pakistan?

Why are the Muslims in Afghanistan defeated in every corner of their own country ?

Why are the Muslims around the world are the poorest, most oppressed, least advanced, least educated, most miserable...etc...etc...etc.


WHY THEN ARE THE "MUSLIMS" DEFEATED? God already gave us the answer over 1400 years ago.

BECAUSE they refuse to believe God in His repeated statements that Quran is COMPLETE, PERFECT, FULLY DETAILED, and SHALL BE THE ONLY SOURCE OF RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE. Because they have accepted other sources, namely, Hadith and Sunna, beside Quran.

http://www.submission.org/islam/defeat.html

No, there will be no progress until there is more capitalism.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=47317
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=48717

And so long that a significant resentful minority belives otherwise and can gain access to WMD, the more capitalistic countries cannot simply ignore the less capitalistic until they grow up on their own.
http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/09/Whoisourenemy.shtml

This doesn't mean that a military invasion is a good answer. For example, deregulating the nuclear industry would lower the unproductive income of the nations that strongly support terrorism. Hopefully this would force them to change their society, build a real productive economy and gain back their pride.

 

[Twistedseer]

The christian religion respects the other religions

?

Are you blinded by faith?

Twistedseer

 

[tumor]

Women in Iraq under Saddam had almost all the rights as the men had,and couple other countries were quite progressive.But Iraq was the most liberal towards women.
Also Syria,Palestine,Turkey have are not that bad.
By the way ,why all the attention towards muslim nations? do you guys read what is going on in India, absolute disaster almost feudalism,women are treated worst than animals!
Where is the outrage about China's women?
Liberalization of muslim nations can happenen and women could have same rights but west should stand aside and not intrefere.It takes time.
Liberalization with American tanks and jets only makes things worst,but problem of course is that arabs have all the oil.

 

[Aquamarine]

Women in Iraq under Saddam had almost all the rights as the men had,and couple other countries were quite progressive.But Iraq was the most liberal towards women.
Also Syria,Palestine,Turkey have are not that bad.
By the way ,why all the attention towards muslim nations? do you guys read what is going on in India, absolute disaster almost feudalism,women are treated worst than animals!
Where is the outrage about China's women?
Liberalization of muslim nations can happenen and women could have same rights but west should stand aside and not intrefere.It takes time.
Liberalization with American tanks and jets only makes things worst,but problem of course is that arabs have all the oil.

It is true that one shouldn't focus only on muslim nations. Arguably the worst political system ever was communism, both to its own people and as threat to others. But it has mostly disappeared from the face of the Earth now, having mostly collapsed on its own. It is interesting to compare the Vietnam war to Iraq, a war which the US lost militarily but has now essentially won when the system collapsed by itself.

There is also little capitalism in large parts of Africa, India or South America. What is different with the Middle East is the oil and that some terrorists are threatening other countries with WMD. But I think these are connected, the capitalistic countries don't need to be dependent on oil and don't need to fund the terrorists, the playboy lifestyles of ruling elites and an education system and priesthood that teaches religion and little practical skills.

 

[Gokul43201]

Women in Iraq under Saddam had almost all the rights as the men had,and couple other countries were quite progressive.But Iraq was the most liberal towards women.
Also Syria,Palestine,Turkey have are not that bad.
By the way ,why all the attention towards muslim nations? do you guys read what is going on in India, absolute disaster almost feudalism,women are treated worst than animals!
Where is the outrage about China's women?

In India and China, the government does not discriminate against women. The constitutions of these countries do not assign a lower status to women. The are protected equally under the law.

India has had a woman Head of State, voted for two terms by the people. In India, the Congress Party (the Left wing party currently in power) has had more women leaders than men. At any time, about a quarter of the states have women Chief Ministers (=Governors). Women make up a greater fraction of the wealthiest 20% in India than most western countries. There are women in top positions in government, business, academia, sport, entertainment and international diplomacy.

The only incidents of ill-treated women are in socially and economically backward areas, where these incidents are related to social stigma rather than legal status. This is common to many developing/underdeveloped countries and is not a result of women's legal status or protection under the law. And you can read what is going on, only if the country has a free press that will talk about the cruelty faced by women. This simply does not exist in most Islamic states.

There is NO law (in India, China, etc.) that says that a rape victim needs 5 male witnesses to win her case. There is no law telling a woman what to wear, whom to touch, how to cry, how to bathe her children, how to bathe herself after sex, where to work, or who to screw.

Tumor, once again, you are making little sense.

PS : This is not about Iraq, which had a secular ruling body under Saddam and the Ba'athists.

 

[Microburst]

terrorism: The punishment for those who wreak havoc is extremely harsh (5:33-34). Terrorism has as little to do with Islam as burning a cross to terrorize a black family has to do with Christianity. Terrorism is often done by haters of Islam, peace and justice to sabotage good Muslims causes such as peace settlements, democracy movements and modernization. No Islamic teaching supports terrorism.

suicide "martyrdom": "Do not kill yourselves." (4:29). Self-killers are condemned to hell. Even killing oneself to end extreme pain is unacceptable. Some radical sects, considered non-Muslim by most, view suicide-killing as legitimate.

martyrdom: A martyr (Arabic shaheed=witness) is somebody who dies as a witness for goodness or a witness against evil. A martyr testifies before God about the evil-doers that killed him/her and about the goodness his/her death creates in society.

scarves for women: This is based on a verse in the Koran. "And let them spread their scarves over their shirt openings and not show their natural adornment . . ." (24:31) If Muslim women choose not to cover their head, there is no Islamic law punishing them or coercing them. Styles of dress are cultural and vary according to culture throughout the Islamic world.

female genital mutilation: This is found in some African countries and is a very painful tribal practice passed down to the present day. It is not based on Islamic teaching. Many Muslim women, such as the wife of the late Anwar Sadat, are working hard to eliminate the practice.

 

[Outcast]

chem_tr and Ethanol I have some bad news for you. Allah loves terrorist more than he loves you.

Qur’an 4:95 “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit. Allah prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.”

So if you want Allah to love you, you need to get off your butts, get out there and kill people.

I have read and studied Islam. The more I learn the more evil Islam becomes.

To be a Christian is to be Christ like.
To be a Buddhist is to be Buddha like
To be a Moslem is to be Mohammad like.

And what was Mohammad like?

Here is a good bedtime story about the prophet of peace, may he burn in Hell.

From the Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guilaume's translation "The Life of Muhammad") pages 675, 676.

Note: My comments will be in [ ] type brackets. Notes by the Translators of the texts will be in { } brackets.

`UMAYR B. `ADIYY'S JOURNEY TO KILL `ASMA' D. MARWAN She was of B. Umayyya b. Zayd. When Abu `Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection. `Abdullah b. al-Harith b. Al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd. Blaming Islam and its followers she said:

I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit
and `Auf and B. al-Khazraj.
You obey a stranger who is none of yours,
One not of Murad or Madhhij. {1}
Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs
Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?
Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise
And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?

Hassan b. Thabit answered her:

Banu Wa'il and B. Waqif and Khatma
Are inferior to B. al-Khazrahj.
When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping,
For death is coming.
She stirred up a man of glorious origin,
Noble in his going out and in his coming in.
Before midnight he dyed her in her blood
And incurred no guilt thereby.

When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" `Umayr b. `Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O `Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so `Umayr went back to his people.

Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [daughter of] Marwan. She had five sons, and when `Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting." That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was `Umayr b. `Adiy who was called the "Reader", and `Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam.

{1} The note reads "Two tribes of Yamani origin."

[END OF IBN HISHAM QUOTE]

 

[Aquamarine]

You can also find many "evil" passages in the Bible:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl.htm#menu
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl1.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl2.htm

Acts of genocide:
The flood of Noah
Destruction of the residents of Canaan

Murder of children:
Isaac
the first-born of Egypt
42 little children
a whole family
the Midianite children
babies of Babylon

Murdering people because of curiosity:
For looking at/into the Ark of the Covenant
For looking back at Sodom

Murdering people for doing the right thing:
For saving the Ark of the Covenant from damage
For taking a census as ordered by God

Religious intolerance: Murdering people for worshiping another God
Mass murder of men involved in inter-faith relationships
Murder of 450 priests

Other hard passages: Mass murder of fighters for democracy
Murdering a person for practicing birth control
Punishing the children, grand-children, etc. of a sinner
Using torture against captives
Legal rape
Passages relating to slavery of females
Raping female prisoners of war

Slavery
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm

The quotation by Jefferson Davis, listed above, reflected the beliefs of many Americans in the 19th century. Slavery was seen as having been "sanctioned in the Bible." They argued that:

Biblical passages recognized, controlled, and regulated the practice.
The Bible permitted owners to beat their slaves severely, even to the point of killing them. However, as long as the slave lingered longer than 24 hours before dying of the abuse, the owner was not regarded as having committed a crime, because -- after all -- the slave was his property. 4
Paul had every opportunity to write in one of his Epistles that human slavery -- the owning of one person as a piece of property by another -- is profoundly evil. His letter to Philemon would have been an ideal opportunity to vilify slavery. But he wrote not one word of criticism.
Jesus could have condemned the practice. He might have done so. But there is no record of him having said anything negative about the institution.

 

[Outcast]

Either you being very dishonest the way you are taking things out of context or you are very ignorant of the Quarn.

terrorism: The punishment for those who wreak havoc is extremely harsh (5:33-34). Terrorism has as little to do with Islam as burning a cross to terrorize a black family has to do with Christianity. Terrorism is often done by haters of Islam, peace and justice to sabotage good Muslims causes such as peace settlements, democracy movements and modernization. No Islamic teaching supports terrorism.

Quarn 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

34 Except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Yes. " The punishment for those who wreak havoc is extremely harsh." but only for those who wreak havoc against Allah and his messenger, not terrorists.

suicide "martyrdom": "Do not kill yourselves." (4:29). Self-killers are condemned to hell. Even killing oneself to end extreme pain is unacceptable. Some radical sects, considered non-Muslim by most, view suicide-killing as legitimate.

Suicide?

Quran 4:29 O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill your people; surely Allah is Merciful to you.

martyrdom: A martyr (Arabic shaheed=witness) is somebody who dies as a witness for goodness or a witness against evil. A martyr testifies before God about the evil-doers that killed him/her and about the goodness his/her death creates in society.

Ishaq:385 “Amr Jamuh was a very lame man. He had four lion-like sons who were present at the Apostle’s battles. At Uhud he came to the Prophet and told him that his sons wanted to keep him back and prevent his joining the army. ‘Yet, by Allah, I hope to tread in the Heavenly Garden of Paradise despite my lameness. The Apostle said, ‘Allah has excused you, and Jihad is not incumbent on you.’ Then Muhammad turned to his sons and said, ‘You need not prevent him. Perhaps Allah will favor him with martyrdom.’ So the lame old man went into battle and was killed.”

Muhammad allowing a lame old man to go into battle in hopes of becoming a martyr? Isn't that Suicide? And what would he testify to before Allah, that Muhammad allowed him to go?

Ishaq:394 “Allah said, ‘I let them get the better of you to test you. So fear Me and obey Me. If you had believed in what My Prophet brought from Me you would not have received a shock from the Meccan army. But We cause days like this so that Allah may know those who believe and may choose martyrs from among you. Allah must distinguish between believers and hypocrites so that He can honor the faithful with martyrdom.’"

The only way Allah can tell the difference between "believers and hypocrites" is for them to die in battle? I'm sure glad I don't worship Allah.

scarves for women: This is based on a verse in the Koran. "And let them spread their scarves over their shirt openings and not show their natural adornment . . ." (24:31) If Muslim women choose not to cover their head, there is no Islamic law punishing them or coercing them. Styles of dress are cultural and vary according to culture throughout the Islamic world.

Did you ever read 24:31? It says a Muslim women can walk around half naked in front of the male members of her household and for her not to jiggle her breast when she walks.

24:31 SHAKIR: And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.

Read "let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments" as cover your bosoms and don't expose your breasts. Except to...
Read "let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known" as don't jiggle your breast when you walk.

female genital mutilation: This is found in some African countries and is a very painful tribal practice passed down to the present day. It is not based on Islamic teaching. Many Muslim women, such as the wife of the late Anwar Sadat, are working hard to eliminate the practice.

Perhaps the wife of the late Anwar Sadat should be working hard to eliminate the practice of suicide bombings and beheadings. That can be very painful to.

 

[Outcast]

You can also find many "evil" passages in the Bible:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl.htm#menu
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl1.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl2.htm

Slavery
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm

Only a single source? Surely you could find more hate Christian sites than just one. Try http://www.exchristian.net/forums/
Yes, all that and more is in the Bible.

I told you a few evil things that Muhammad did, (want me to name more?) now tell me some evil things that Christ or Budda did.

Yes I am familiar with religiousINtolerance.org

SLAVERY: In the Bible and today's world:

What no "SLAVERY:In the Quarn and today's world? How many slaves did Christ own and how many did Muhammad own?

Overview of the Sudan situation: This article is a bunch of crap the way they play down or justify slavery in the Sudan, just because Christians are the ones being enslaved by Moslems.

If you want to talk about slavery, start with these websites, then we can talk about Islam and slavery today, not something that happened 150 years ago.

http://www.antislavery.org/index.htm
http://www.ccem-antislavery.org/
http://mykindredspirit2.home.att.net/
http://www.captivedaughters.org/
http://www.takingitglobal.org/opps/orgdir.html?vieworg=295
http://www.iabolish.com/

And the most famous of all: Amnesty International

 

[Microburst]

>>>Either you being very dishonest the way you are taking things out of context or you are very ignorant of the Quarn. <<<

Actually I did read the entire book, and it’s not all that different from the old testament. Religion if taken literary can be precarious. I was just trying to present another view. I have not done any in-depth study or analysis on Islam, but reading just QURAN I found certain things that sounded ungodly and outright vicious.

 

[Microburst]

Only a single source? Surely you could find more hate Christian sites than just one. Try http://www.exchristian.net/forums/
Yes, all that and more is in the Bible.

I told you a few evil things that Muhammad did, (want me to name more?) now tell me some evil things that Christ or Budda did.

Yes I am familiar with religiousINtolerance.org


What no "SLAVERY:In the Quarn and today's world? How many slaves did Christ own and how many did Muhammad own?

Overview of the Sudan situation: This article is a bunch of crap the way they play down or justify slavery in the Sudan, just because Christians are the ones being enslaved by Moslems.

If you want to talk about slavery, start with these websites, then we can talk about Islam and slavery today, not something that happened 150 years ago.

http://www.antislavery.org/index.htm
http://www.ccem-antislavery.org/
http://mykindredspirit2.home.att.net/
http://www.captivedaughters.org/
http://www.takingitglobal.org/opps/orgdir.html?vieworg=295
http://www.iabolish.com/

And the most famous of all: Amnesty International

Can you please list all the evil things Mohammed did? I want to know, but with respectable source references.

 

[Microburst]

Might have something to do with being a 14th century society.

But 21st century folks are just as atrocious… Humans are no angels...

 

[chem_tr]

You can find some "evil" things done by muslims according to your point of view, but please leave our prophet clean. He has been one of the most good souls as with the other prophets, whose missions were the same; conducting people to walk in the way of the God. I never do any discrimination like "your prophet" or "our prophet"; all of them are messengers, and saying the truth. We could not understand their messages clearly, this is (and should be) our main topic.

Take care.

 

[MSI]

Chem tr, the website you linked to says this:



In light of Sura 9:5 quoted in a post above, is it fair to conclude that the Qu'ran contains contradictions? If so, can it truly be the Word of a deity?

well, this is sura 9:5 {But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. }
well you can't just read it and say islam is [terrorism]! you mast read what's written before it in 9:1-4 which will tell that if you was in a war , you must stop fighting in the forbidden months, but after these months you can continue fighting your enimies ..

onther examble in quran in 107:4 {So woe to the praying ones}
also you can't say that we mustn't pray because this sura say that!, you must continue readint to find that in 107:5 allah said {Who are unmindful of their prayers} and in 107:6 {Who do (good) to be seen} ...
you see that the meaning is not in one "ayah" (the phrase in sura)


onther thing..women have a real gr8 rights in islam .. the woman is not responsible for paying any thing in life .. she get all what she nead from her father and from her husbend .. and if she works she take all the mone for her self and she is not responsible for payying any thing for they house even if they need it!
and for hujab , i think it protect the woman more than hurting her, i mean that ****ing woman or seeing them nacked all the time is not woman right!


allah be with you all

 

[studentx]

Islam is not just the Quran. Following the Quran only is seen as a cult.

 

[MiGUi]

?

Are you blinded by faith?

Twistedseer

I do not believe in god, in christianism and in any religion, so that kind of stupid question has no answer at all. My culture proceedes from christianism, and all of the moral, the ethics and so are very relationed with it. I can't forget it.

You should learn a bit of history. Books don't kill people, ignorance yes.

If you believe the christians don't respect other religions, give examples. I am talking today, not in the 15th century.

 

[Ethanol]

Quote: What no "SLAVERY:In the Quarn and today's world? How many slaves did Christ own and how many did Muhammad own? ""

To tell u the truth Muhammad owned no slaves. He acted father to Zayd bin Haris after freeing him.( prophet did not enslave Zayd but was gifted to prophet by prophet's wife Khadija) . Maria qibtia and Safia bint hayi were the freed slaves of the prophet as well as his wives. Maria Qibtia was sent to him by a king. Muhammad freed her. Safia Bint Hayi was prisoner of war and was meant to be the slave but Muhammad freed her and asked her if she would marry him.

 

[Ethanol]

I do not believe in god, in christianism and in any religion, so that kind of stupid question has no answer at all. My culture proceedes from christianism, and all of the moral, the ethics and so are very relationed with it. I can't forget it.

You should learn a bit of history. Books don't kill people, ignorance yes.

If you believe the christians don't respect other religions, give examples. I am talking today, not in the 15th century.

Why do they specially check the muslims and insult them on custom counters in USA and other countries. Why do they not accept the fumdamental right of women in islam about wearing scarves. After all nuns do that in christianity. on airport in britain my aunt was asked to remove her scarf from her head because she had worn a metal clip on her hair. is that fair.

 

[Ethanol]

>>>. I have not done any in-depth study or analysis on Islam, but reading just QURAN I found certain things that sounded ungodly and outright vicious.

I would like to know the ungodly things if i can clear them for u.

 

[MiGUi]

Maybe because 9/11. They cannot assume any risk. Thats what we have to do to preserve our freedom.

Thats exactly the same that happens to any european who wants to travel to the states. No more, and no less. We want security. If you think that this is some kind of humiliation, think in our security. In the security of every one which goes in that plane.

I say, christians in general terms. Policemen have to do its work. The Church respect the existence of other religions, and do not try to convert its people. That was in the past, not today.

 

[tumor]

>>> I have not done any in-depth study or analysis on Islam, but reading just QURAN I found certain things that sounded ungodly and outright vicious.

Did you try to read Bible? Wars, murder, rapes, that's about it. BIBLIE!

 

[arildno]

What is "wrong" with the Islamic world, is that there is only a feeble, rational secularism there (i.e, it has not gone through an Age of Enlightenment).

It is the fact that secularism is strong/dominant in the West which keeps the religious segment in those societies within the bounds of moral decency.

We KNOW from history what Christians are able to do if they are allowed to develop their delusions unchecked by the rational segment in the population.

 

[studentx]

Why do they specially check the muslims and insult them on custom counters in USA and other countries. Why do they not accept the fumdamental right of women in islam about wearing scarves. After all nuns do that in christianity.

Where is it forbidden to wear headscarves?
Maybe in france, and even there only in schools. Why can't we westerners keep our shoes on in mosques? Can we unbelievers even enter your holiest mosque in mecca?
See, we can all play the victim.
And while on the subject of headscarves, islam does not teach that wearing one is mandatory, and certainly does not teach that not wearing one is punishable. Making it mandatory basically means that wearing a headscarve means nothing. It doesn't show her modesty, she does it because she has to. Making it punishable and mandatory means that the islamic world has not the faintest clue about its own religion anymore

on airport in britain my aunt was asked to remove her scarf from her head because she had worn a metal clip on her hair. is that fair.

Its because 20 muslims murdered 3000 westerners with airliners. Ofcourse, muslims are the victim

 

[chem_tr]

Studentx, your first paragraph is okay, but the second one is not. If you are mentioning 9/11, I'd say that they were inhuman, persuaded by their foul fundamentalist phantasies. They couldn't be muslim if they thought "how can I kill thousands of people". Let me give an example, a muslim is such good-hearted person that he takes one piece of rock on the road, in order not to be hazardous to anyone. These examples you're talking about are the worst to the concept "muslims". Please do visit a more civilized muslim country like Turkey, and see with your own eyes.

 

[Bilal]

Hi all,

I would like to ask you to study the back ground of the current conditions. Just read carefully the following facts before judging others:

Current Facts:

- Islamic world representing 23% of the world population. It includes more than 55 nations with different local cultures. For example, could you compare Turkey and Tunisia with Iran and Saudi Arabia? Or could you compare the UAE (very rich country) with Yemen (very poor country)? Generalizing against Islamic world seems silly idea.
- In last century, 137 Millions of people were killed in wars, only 3 millions in Islamic world! The rest of the victims were in Europe and Africa (2WW: 51 million Victims).
- Hitler, Nazi, Zionism, Fascism, KKK, Holocaust, ethic cleansing, concentration camps, Nuclear and chemical attacks … all are products of the Western Civilization or Judeo-Christian culture. This means every civilization and every culture have good and ugly face.
- The entire Islamic world is secular except Saudi Arabia and Iran (even many Muslims do not agree with their laws).
- Women have in many Muslims countries similar rights to the man: Turkey, Tunisia, Algeria, Syrian , Iraq (before the occupation) , Malaysia … etc
- There are 100 wars in Africa, just the victims of Rwanda within two months are more than the victims of all the wars in Islamic in last 30 years! Media rarely care about that.
- Slavery in Africa link with local culture , also Christian involve in most of slavery trading , just check this site of BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3131400.stm
Why media rarely mention that? Because the evil criminals using the Bible to justify the slavery, raping and murdering of kids.

Historical back ground of the current situation:

- Rise of Civilization 7th century -13 the century: The Islamic civilization rises in the 7th century and became the dominant civilization till the 15the century …
Examples of Islamic civilization:

- Baghdad was the center of the world in the 9th century. It population around two millions.

- The first translation university was built in Baghdad in the 9th century. It was called (Dar Al Hikmah) or Wisdom House. They translated hundred thousands of Greek, Persian, Roman, Hebrew, and Indian documents and books to Arabic.


- For the first time, Jews, Muslims and Christian succeeded to live in peace in liberal (semi democratic society) in Spain in the 10th century.

- Many schools of laws were established in 11th and 12 century.

- The largest Islamic State is Indonesia (20% of Muslims in the world), no Islamic army reached this State. The people converted to Islam due to economical relations, the same as Malaysia and SE Asia.

Islamic civilization and Science

Specific Muslims scientists and their contribution in human civilization:

- Alhazen, is considered as the father of modern Optics:

http://www.unhas.ac.id/~rhiza/saintis/haitham.html
http://brightbytes.com/cosite/what.html



-Sample of Muslims scientists and their contribution in different fields:
http://www.unhas.ac.id/~rhiza/saintis/

-The first world map by AL-IDRIS
http://www.soundsofislam.com/idrisi.html

- Islam and medicine:

Guardian Newspapers, 9/10/2003
http://www.buzzle.co.uk/editorials/9-10-2003-45271.asp

Chemical medicine

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/arabic/c..._medicine5.html


Chemistry or al-kimiya

http://www.tlchm.bris.ac.uk/webproj...rmer/arabic.htm

Muslims and Weapon

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/s...r/Weapons2.html


- Mathematics

History of mathematics: you can choose from 500 to 1300, most of scientists have Arab or Islamic names:
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/...logy/index.html

About 810
House of Wisdom set up in Baghdad. There Greek and Indian mathematical and astronomy works are translated into Arabic.

About 810
Al-Khwarizmi writes important works on arithmetic, algebra, geography, and astronomy. In particular Hisab al-jabr w'al-muqabala (Calculation by Completion and Balancing), gives us the word "algebra", from "al-jabr". From al-Khwarizmi's name, as a consequence of his arithmetic book, comes the word "algorithm".

About 850
Thabit ibn Qurra makes important mathematical discoveries such as the extension of the concept of number to (positive) real numbers, integral calculus, theorems in spherical trigonometry, analytic geometry, and non-euclidean geometry.

About 850
Thabit ibn Qurra writes Book on the determination of amicable numbers which contains general methods to construct amicable numbers. He knows the pair of amicable numbers 17296, 18416.

About 900
Abu Kamil writes Book on algebra which studies applications of algebra to geometrical problems. It will be the book on which Fibonacci will base his works.

About 900
Abu Kamil writes Book on algebra which studies applications of algebra to geometrical problems. It will be the book on which Fibonacci will base his works.

920
Al-Battani writes Kitab al-Zij a major work on astronomy in 57 chapters. It contains advances in trigonometry.
About 960
Al-Uqlidisi writes Kitab al-fusul fi al-hisab al-Hindi which is the earliest surviving book that presents the Hindu system.

About 970
Abu'l-Wafa invents the wall quadrant for the accurate measurement of the declination of stars in the sky. He writes important books on arithmetic and geometric constructions. He introduces the tangent function and produces improved methods of calculating trigonometric tables.

976
Codex Vigilanus copied in Spain. Contains the first evidence of decimal numbers in Europe.
About 990
Al-Karaji writes Al-Fakhri in Baghdad which develops algebra. He gives Pascal's triangle.

About 1000
Ibn al-Haytham (often called Alhazen) writes works on optics, including a theory of light and a theory of vision, astronomy, and mathematics, including geometry and number theory. He gives Alhazen's problem: Given a light source and a spherical mirror, find the point on the mirror were the light will be reflected to the eye of an observer.

About 1010
Al-Biruni writes on many scientific topics. His work on mathematics covers arithmetic, summation of series, combinatorial analysis, the rule of three, irrational numbers, ratio theory, algebraic definitions, method of solving algebraic equations, geometry, Archimedes' theorems, trisection of the angle and other problems which cannot be solved with ruler and compass alone, conic sections, stereometry, stereographic projection, trigonometry, the sine theorem in the plane, and solving spherical triangles.

About 1020
Ibn Sina (usually called Avicenna) writes on philosophy, medicine, psychology, geology, mathematics, astronomy, and logic. His important mathematical work Kitab al-Shifa' (The Book of Healing) divides mathematics into four major topics, geometry, astronomy, arithmetic, and music.

1040
Ahmad al-Nasawi writes al-Muqni'fi al-Hisab al-Hindi which studies four different number systems. He explains the operations of arithmetic, particularly taking square and cube roots in each system.

1072
Al-Khayyami (usually known as Omar Khayyam) writes Treatise on Demonstration of Problems of Algebra which contains a complete classification of cubic equations with geometric solutions found by means of intersecting conic sections. He measures the length of the year to be 365.24219858156 days, a remarkably accurate result.

1130
Jabir ibn Aflah writes works on mathematics which, although not as good as many other Arabic works, are important since they will be translated into Latin and become available to European mathematicians.

1142
Adelard of Bath produces two or three translations of Euclid's Elements from Arabic.

1149
Al-Samawal writes al-Bahir fi'l-jabr (The brilliant in algebra). He develops algebra with polynomials using negative powers and zero. He solves quadratic equations, sums the squares of the first n natural numbers, and looks at combinatorial problems.

1150
Arabic numerals are introduced into Europe with Gherard of Cremona's translation of Ptolemy's Almagest. The name of the "sine" function comes from this translation.

1411
Al-Kashi writes Compendium of the Science of Astronomy.

1424
Al-Kashi writes Treatise on the Circumference giving a in both sexagesimal and decimal forms.remarkably good approximation to

1427
Al-Kashi completes The Key to Arithmetic containing work of great depth on decimal fractions. It applies arithmetical and algebraic methods to the solution of various problems, including several geometric ones and is one of the best textbooks in the whole of medieval literature.


Causes of the fall of Islamic civilization:


- Crusaders wars: 200 years of religious catholic wars against Muslims, Jews and orthodox Christian. These wars exhausted the ME societies.

- Mongolian wars: Before the end of crusaders wars, Mongolian invaded the East. They destroyed Baghdad, killed 800000 people and burn its well known library.

- Fall of Spain: Muslims lost Spain in the end of 15th after 800 years of great civilization. Spanish changed the trading from ME to South Africa, which had great economical impact.

- Islamic scholars stopped developing the laws since 14 century, which made many of them not suitable for modern societies.


- Ottoman Empire, ruled the Islamic world recently. They faced many wars with Russia, Romania, Balkan, Greece, UK, France, Egypt …

Historical background of current situation:

- The imperialist western countries occupation the third world countries including the Islamic world. Some countries as Algeria lost 3 million people to get independence … other countries as Palestine, the people replaced by the European Jews (ethic cleansing)
- The Imperialist countries withdraw from the Islamic world in 50s and 60s, they left puppet dictators ruling these countries: Suhartu : Indonesia, Shah: Iran , Bu Raqiba : Tunisia …..
- Imperialist countries never care about the right of nations, and they supported the dictators (as Bush admit recently) for decades against the will of nations.
- Israel was inserted by FORCE in the region and by FORCING the Palestinian to leave their homeland. Western countries are responsible about the tragedy of Palestinian especially, UK, France and USA. This is considered as symbol of western aggression against people of the east.
- During cold war, Islamic world in general supported USA: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt (after 1973), Malaysia, Iran (before 1979) … without support of these major Islamic countries, the results of cold war could be not the same. Islamic world stopped the expansion of communism, only South Yemen with population less than half of million was communist country! (Beside former Soviet republics and Albania)
- Many people who hate their pro West dictators supported the Left and communist groups as alternative to those bloody dictators in 60s, 70s and mid 80s.
- After the fall of USSR, many people believed in Islam as alternative to protect them from those dictators and from the imperialism.
- More than 90% of Islamic groups and parties accepted the democracy as part of Islamic political system (as in Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Malaysia…)
- Only few small extremist groups are supporting to target the civilians, those groups were supported during the war of Afghanistan by USA and the West to face the Communism

 

[studentx]

Studentx, your first paragraph is okay, but the second one is not. If you are mentioning 9/11, I'd say that they were inhuman, persuaded by their foul fundamentalist phantasies. They couldn't be muslim if they thought "how can I kill thousands of people". Let me give an example, a muslim is such good-hearted person that he takes one piece of rock on the road, in order not to be hazardous to anyone. These examples you're talking about are the worst to the concept "muslims". Please do visit a more civilized muslim country like Turkey, and see with your own eyes.

Apparently all 20 men were considered real muslims up until the moment they died. Ofcourse they are the scum of the islamic world, but they were muslims. To say that all your muslim brothers are incapable of doing such things (which you are implying by saying these men were never muslims), it means you are ignoring the problem and force outsiders to clean up the mess that the islamic world allows to grow. If they don't have the power to crush suicidebombing and this branch of terrorism like a cockroach,(ala Salman Rushdie), then the religion needs to reform.

And Bilal, your figures can't be straight. The war between Iran and Iraq alone costed 2million muslim lifes, add gw1+2 and you are already close to 3 million, in just 2 Islamic countries, in just a few years.

 

[omin]

The Butt Veil

http://humphrys.humanists.net/islamic.world.html

Culture changes take time.

Just a few decades ago, the American culture beat the asses of school girls who showed too much of their legs. Remember the Taliban and there sticks on mainstream news? We Americans are only few decades away from this same behaviour,but they are criminals and terrorists and extremists huh?

We were hanging people and torturing our own citizens just a few more decades from this. But we Americans are so innocent now.

Hollywood a few decades ago represented slapping your ditzy b*!ch as an ordinary thing. That too was modern American culture. Not too long ago either.

There a more examples, but I want to mention transition.

Islamistists cover much of there body with clothes, more than modern Americans do. But not much more than Americans a few decades ago. We're talking just a few square inches of covered body area. A small percentage. It's negligible.

Culture transitions take time. Americans didn't change over night. Clothing hang ups isn't the only thing that takes time. But all these things will change for the Arab world. But murdering them decreases there own imminent desire to transition. Democracy occurs from within not from without, and these principles are inherent to all humans.

If they reveal a bit more, you might want to think what it might be like for yourself. Cut a hole in the ass side of your pants and walk downtown showing your hairy buttocks. Will this feel confortable to you? What's your hand up American?

 

[Bilal]

Dear Student,

The victims of Iraqi-Iran war less than one million (700000 Iranian and 300000 Iraqi). It is also considered as war between secularism (Saddam) and theocracy (Khumaini. Thanks to Roland Reagan government who blessed Saddam (remember the picture of Ramsfiled in 1986).

Sadly, it was the bloodiest war in Islamic world.

By the way, Saddam is considered one of the most anti Islam leaders. He closed most of mosques in Iraq and banned Hijab! Also he killed most of Muslims scholars, even he did not accept to call Islam as main religion of Iraq. He just used the religion in 90s to get some support against his former alliance (USA).

If you check the politics of USA in 80s, you will realize that Sadadm and OBL were supported by USA and their puppet regimes in the east (e.g. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia). Without this support, those two people will never get any power …
Why you throw the trash of CIA on Islam, just because they claimed to be muslims?!

And Bilal, your figures can't be straight. The war between Iran and Iraq alone costed 2million muslim lifes, add gw1+2 and you are already close to 3 million, in just 2 Islamic countries, in just a few years.

 

[Microburst]

Did you try to read Bible? Wars, murder, rapes, that's about it. BIBLIE!

I concur...

 

[Microburst]

I would like to know the ungodly things if i can clear them for u.

IV.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

you know things like "Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them."

will God say stuff like that?

and things like: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

 

[tumor]

What is wrong

 

[Ethanol]

IV.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

you know things like "Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them."

will God say stuff like that?

.

Just a little bit of misconception on your part. Allah does not want us to kill christians and jews because they believe in one GOD. Jews are considered closest to muslims on the basis of culture by most scholars at least in Pakistan they think so.

Among non believers who desire ""so that you might be (all) alike"" have to be dealt with iron hands. Its way has been described in the early days of islam as

1.They are told that they accept islam considering it a true religion.
2. If they do not want to accept islam they should pay some tax each year and the Muslim Empire will be responsible for their security in return of that tax.They will not be harmed and should let muslims(who have converted on their own free will) to live peacefully among themselves.Religious tolerance is must.
3.If they do not agree to these terms then they should fight.

And I should inform u about the leniant behaviour of muslims in the society with the non muslims.At the end of War of Baddar 75 were taken prisoner.Those who could not pay ransome were set free. Those who could read and write had to teach 10 muslim children as ransome.Those who could pay ransome were not deprived of their wealth completely, just a little bit of ransome even though many of them were quite rich.

 

[Ethanol]

And while on the subject of headscarves, islam does not teach that wearing one is mandatory, and certainly does not teach that not wearing one is punishable. Making it mandatory basically means that wearing a headscarve means nothing. It doesn't show her modesty, she does it because she has to. Making it punishable and mandatory means that the islamic world has not the faintest clue about its own religion anymore

Well it is pretty much of an order by God though it is upto a woman to wear it.
I can't agree with the second thing. Of course there are women who r forced to waer scarves but i say most do on their own free will.i don't think many women do it because they have to. A simple example is that I am from a very liberal muslim family. Mom wears no scarf, dad does not compell us to do so but i wear a scarf just because i want to hide from the dirty leering eyes of the crowd. I think it was a very good decision of mine and a scarf does not stop me from going out with my friends to public spots and parties.

And of course u r true again,because Muslims are in poor state in the world right now because they haven't got a clue what islam really is.

Our Leader Muhammad ali Jinnah(Pakistani) said ' Islam is not a religion,it is a complete code of conduct in life.Our culture,laws and jurisprudence sets us apart from other nations.' And i believe that it was this belief that led Muslims of subcontinent to claim a free independant state of their own. ( I'm really proud of that )

 

[Ethanol]

and things like: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Well actually somehow or other the three cultures jews, christians and muslims have always been planing destruction for each other so they better leave each other alone. Also Muslims have suffered a great deal due to the threats of jews in Madinah (there were no christians in the cith then).Even after the Pact Of Madinah , Jews internally kept a close contact with Meccans intentionally to harm muslims. They backed out in The War of Tribes
against the pact and for that they were banished. How can anyone forget the Crusades with christians?

I don't think there is any problem with friends of other religions if they are trustworthy. I do have two christian friends.

 

[Nickolas]

When religion has the power, the fundamentalism rises and rises. In Europe we spend many efforts and many blood to reach the humanism, then the Renaissance and finally the religion was separated from governments.

Islamic religion says that anyone which don't believe in Alá and so its stuff must to be killed to save its soul, or else converted. This kind of religion can't coexist with us. The christian religion respects the other religions, but islamic don't.

In fact, all can be reduced to this: Is they, or us. They medieval society, or our modern society.

They will no stop until we were blown off. So we must destroy them before.

whhhhhhat?
it is not true?
how tell you that??
Islamic religion not order to kill anyone .I'm muslim and I'm glad and happy.I have many Friend in many Country ,from Italy , Canada , Riuses
and Idon't feel they are scared from I.
and all my friend is not muslim...
So we must destroy them before.[/QUOTE]
we must!
how are you?
you are don't have to say that
read carefully about Great Islamic religion

 

[Aquamarine]

Religion is not a good ground to build society on. As I have said before, there will be no progress in the Islamic world until it embraces capitalism. To see some of the effects look under The superiority of the west here:
http://humphrys.humanists.net/islamic.world.html

Or here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=48717
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=47317

The only thing that the capitalistic countries need from the Middle East are oil. And that can relatively easily be remedied through nuclear power and probably biodiesel. The day oil is replaced, the Middle East will sink into deepest poverty since they have wasted their money on the playboy lifestyles of their rulers and an unproductive religious educational system.

Furthermore, it is not the west that should be envied. The coming century probably belongs to China, and it will be they who will be forced to decide the fate of the moslems.

 

[Ethanol]

Religion is not a good ground to build society on. As I have said before, there will be no progress in the Islamic world until it embraces capitalism.

The day oil is replaced, the Middle East will sink into deepest poverty since they have wasted their money on the playboy lifestyles of their rulers and an unproductive religious educational system.

Well u haven't heard anything about the past muslim societies may be when constantinople samarkand bokhara and cordova were developed on the basis of religion. Like i said in my post that a religion like islam is a code of conduct of life. Islam does not explain how to pray in koran even if it has been ordered to pray in the Holy Koran. Islam tells how to spend a life in society. it does not make people go and live in forests to learn through hardships. It does not stop priests from getting married. The basics of all religions is to live your life in society such that from every action of yours the mankind as a whole gets the benefit.

To tell u the truth Middle East can sink no lower now. They completely rely on their money and no matter what money cannot buy technology even though u can buy as many toasters as u want.

Education system in Islam is based on two continuous branches.
1. Compulsory religious education, so that every one can decide what is good for them.
2.Worldly education, which is compulsory for those who can afford it . It is very important that most of the people in society get this kind of education too.(see posts by Bilal, all the success was met when Muslims truly followed islam)

Capitalism is not the only way to succeed in achieving progress. In the reign of Caliph Umer bin Abdulaziz people used to look tirelessly for poor to give their yearly alms(zakat). Most could not even find any as every one was so prosperous.

 

[Aquamarine]

Sites about how secular Islam:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://www.secularislam.org/

The first one has a quite active forum.

Quran’s Teachings:
Find out what is the inspiration behind the hate and violence in Islamic terrorism?

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

As I have stated earlier in this thread, Christianity have similar teachings in the bible. The difference being that since the Enlightenment, the Bible has lost most influence in the Western world.

 

[Smurf]

Aquamarine, to me the idea of a society being based on religion is quite out-dated and generally bad.. but is a society based on greed really better?