What's the source of power of wizard in the Potter universe?

[TheMathNoob]

For example in DBZ, the level of power is determined by the ki, so what about the potter universe?

 

[phinds]

Uh ... magic?

 

[Drakkith]

Tiny fusion reactors are built into every wand. How? Magic.

 

[Loren]

CGI

 

[Ryan_m_b]

The book has no justification. The ability to perform spells is determined by how well you can say/think them and wave your wand.

 

[PWiz]

This might help:
https://www.quora.com/What-makes-a-wizard-or-witch-powerful-in-the-Harry-Potter-world
The reference is from the game "Book of Spells", which had J.K. Rowling's direct involvement in its development (and can hence be considered "official").

 

[phinds]

This might help:
https://www.quora.com/What-makes-a-wizard-or-witch-powerful-in-the-Harry-Potter-world
The reference is from the game "Book of Spells", which had J.K. Rowling's direct involvement in its development (and can hence be considered "official").

That's good. Official magic makes so much more sense than just randomly making stuff up.

 

[PWiz]

That's good. Official magic makes so much more sense than just randomly making stuff up.

Officially made up stuff > Unofficial fan fiction

 

[Drakkith]

Officially made up stuff > Unofficial fan fiction

Depends on the fan fiction...

 

[Hornbein]

For example in DBZ, the level of power is determined by the ki, so what about the potter universe?

The wizard energy comes from the quantum Klein-Gordon field ϕ(x). Its momentum density π(x) are given in Fourier space by

ϕ(x)=∫d3p(2π)31√2ωp(apeip⋅x+a†pe−ip⋅x) and

π(x)=∫d3p(2π)3(−i)√ωp2(apeip⋅x+a†pe−ip⋅x).

 

[TheMathNoob]

The wizard energy comes from the quantum Klein-Gordon field ϕ(x). Its momentum density π(x) are given in Fourier space by

ϕ(x)=∫d3p(2π)31√2ωp(apeip⋅x+a†pe−ip⋅x) and

π(x)=∫d3p(2π)3(−i)√ωp2(apeip⋅x+a†pe−ip⋅x).

are you joking? I don't think so. You look to smart to be a joker.

 

[HallsofIvy]

The source of power is the author!

 

[Fervent Freyja]

From what I can remember, the source of power originated from the blood(lines).

 

[Hornbein]

From what I can remember, the source of power originated from the blood(lines).

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This was the source of controversy.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This was the source of controversy.

Can you elaborate further on why the source of power could be “sometimes no” in the bloodlines?

The Wizard gene is dominant, whereas Muggle genes are recessive. If a Muggle shows signs of magic, then either the gene was dormant and skipped generations, or somebody is lying (they were adopted or the mother cheated). You cannot transform a Muggle into a Wizard. I think that the controversy was centered more around purity and power, but the magic had to originate in the bloodlines to even begin that feud.

 

[Hornbein]

Can you elaborate further on why the source of power could be “sometimes no” in the bloodlines?

The Wizard gene is dominant, whereas Muggle genes are recessive. If a Muggle shows signs of magic, then either the gene was dormant and skipped generations, or somebody is lying (they were adopted or the mother cheated). You cannot transform a Muggle into a Wizard. I think that the controversy was centered more around purity and power, but the magic had to originate in the bloodlines to even begin that feud.

Kindly refer to the evidence that supports your claim. Until then I remain firmly in the spontaneous generation camp.

 

[Sophia]

I haven't found a single answer. There may be more factors that influence the power.
The simplest could be the wand intself (materials used and it's history)

Another is wizard's experience and inner power

But l I think that the most important of all factors is love and sacrifice (I'm halfway through the last book).

 

[jim mcnamara]

@phinds When in doubt sarcasm will usually get you points no matter what. I lived for years in a culture that actively feared witches and witchcraft. Stupid jokes were my only defense, since science was out of the question. Kewa Reservation, NM. (Santo Domingo Pueblo on old maps).

 

[phinds]

@phinds When in doubt sarcasm will usually get you points no matter what. I lived for years in a culture that actively feared witches and witchcraft. Stupid jokes were my only defense, since science was out of the question. Kewa Reservation, NM. (Santo Domingo Pueblo on old maps).

Interesting. Were they hostile to science in general or just if anyone tried to apply it to their beliefs in unscientific things, or were they just indifferent to it in general, believing it to be irrelevant?

 

[jim mcnamara]

@phinds
It was not relevant to them. At all. Their belief was: they already had all the answers.

One of my neighbors was convinced he was witched. I did not try to talk him out of it.

Another good friend was working in his field. A dust devil formed and swept over him. He fell extremely ill later that day. Dust devils are spirits of evil beings.

You have to just go with the flow, and stay out of it. Yet other experiences with non-science explanations: My wife died in my house. Months later, a breeze blew through the house. Although I thought all the doors and windows were shut, my neighbors from the Rez told me it was the spirit of my wife leaving and saying good-bye. I thought it was one of those gusts that sometimes come down thru fireplaces. But what did I know?

It simply boils down to the kind of thinking virtually everyone in the Western world had prior to the Renaissance. It persists. In the Western world, too.

 

[phinds]

@phinds
It was not relevant to them. At all. Their belief was: they already had all the answers.

Worrisome to find that in the modern world in an advanced country. Some Indian tribes have somewhat adapted to the modern world. Hard to run casinos if you don't believe the technology works. Is this one a particularly backward tribe?

 

[jim mcnamara]

@phinds Not really, just very conservative, and somewhat xenophobic (justifably). No casino though. Everyone has a cellphone, for what that's worth. I think you are a bit too sanguine about the level of Science understanding in the US:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/why-do-people-believe-in-ghosts/379072/
They cite a poll in 2014 - 42% of people in the US believe in ghosts.

You & I are out numbered, my friend, if you add in young Earth creationists to this mix:
33%.
http://ncse.com/blog/2013/11/just-how-many-young-earth-creationists-are-there-us-0015164

 

[phinds]

@phinds Not really, just very conservative, and somewhat xenophobic (justifably). No casino though. Everyone has a cellphone, for what that's worth. I think you are a bit too sanguine about the level of Science understanding in the US:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/why-do-people-believe-in-ghosts/379072/
They cite a poll in 2014 - 42% of people in the US believe in ghosts.

You & I are out numbered, my friend, if you add in young Earth creationists to this mix:
33%.
http://ncse.com/blog/2013/11/just-how-many-young-earth-creationists-are-there-us-0015164

Oh, I've posted here several times about how about 40% or more of people in the US believe in angels, ghosts, space aliens and probably unicorns for all I know. I always think those number as too high, but not outrageously too high for reality.

I have relatives who are otherwise seemingly sane, productive members of society and good family folks, but who believe in insane stuff like creationism and the young Earth. One of them has a PhD in math is technically brilliant but thinks Evolution is nonsense.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

Kindly refer to the evidence that supports your claim. Until then I remain firmly in the spontaneous generation camp.

How could a person do that to another person? I'm not going to dance around 10,000 pages just to find evidence. Where is yours by the way?

I have been left no choice to do this.

"Proof that the Potterverse and all constituents within, whether magical or non-magical matter are predetermined.
Thence, regardless of any prior inference about the nature of magic in the Potterverse, namely, nutty notions of spontaneous generation of magic and who-knows-what-else, cannot exist under the laws of this proof; which is again, that all constituents of the Potterverse had causal dependence on J.K. Rowling finger-strokes up until finalization of the literature that defines the Potterverse."

 

[Fervent Freyja]

I haven't found a single answer. There may be more factors that influence the power.
The simplest could be the wand intself (materials used and it's history)

Another is wizard's experience and inner power

But l I think that the most important of all factors is love and sacrifice (I'm halfway through the last book).

Certainly, there is an emotional component that is rewarding in the series. I enjoyed the friendships the most growing up. I do not really believe a person is ever truly sacrificing though, that comes about when there is no other choice or a need is present, and it isn't glamorous or noble to do so- quite ugly actually. If you notice, Harry Potters behavior is mostly driven by pure need, he rarely initiates anything else, and is neither a hero nor a total coward. I love the human, realist aspect of the character.

 

[Sophia]

Worrisome to find that in the modern world in an advanced country. Some Indian tribes have somewhat adapted to the modern world. Hard to run casinos if you don't believe the technology works. Is this one a particularly backward tribe?

Believing in such ribby doesn't necessarily mean they are backwards. Lots of people in the West believe in paranormal phenomena and religion. Even American president informally had to believe in God! And you can earn a small fortune if you write New Age books. And what about all the horoscopes and fortune telling, talismans and lucky numbers?
I know a girl who studied biology at the university and she wore anti-evolution t-shirt to lectures! And she was a normal smart person who got good grades in all other subjects that didn't require answering questions about evolution.

I believe that believing in such things doesn't necessarily mean one is "backwards" while it can be of course sometimes dangerous for other members of society. The main reason why people believe is usually NOT lack of knowledge or poor intellect. They choose to believe because it gives them emotional comfort and a sense of stability in a world that is so relativistic nowadays. I can totally understand that believing that the ghost came to say goodbye may be very therapeutic for that person. I myself would like to believe that if someone near died. And I say that despite the fact that I rationally know that science is against such explanations.

 

[Sophia]

Certainly, there is an emotional component that is rewarding in the series. I enjoyed the friendships the most growing up. I do not really believe a person is ever truly sacrificing though, that comes about when there is no other choice or a need is present, and it isn't glamorous or noble to do so- quite ugly actually. If you notice, Harry Potters behavior is mostly driven by pure need, he rarely initiates anything else, and is neither a hero nor a total coward. I love the human, realist aspect of the character.

Exactly! I noticed the same thing! I love the series, especially the second half because the relationships and characters evolve and they seem quite realistic to me.

 

[Hornbein]

Perhaps readers will be persuaded by your argument.

 

[phinds]

Believing in such ribby doesn't necessarily mean they are backwards.

You are right and I had actually thought about going back and adding a note to my post saying that that wording was a very poor choice.

 

[Sophia]

You are right and I had actually thought about going back and adding a note to my post saying that that wording was a very poor choice.

BTW I noticed that the keyboard changed the word "things" to "ribby" haha I have no idea what ribby means :-)

 

[DHF]

I have relatives who are otherwise seemingly sane, productive members of society and good family folks, but who believe in insane stuff like creationism and the young Earth. One of them has a PhD in math is technically brilliant but thinks Evolution is nonsense.

That is so strange, you would think going through academia for that long, you would be less prone to things that didn't make sense. Especially coming from a STEM subject, its pretty amazing that they believe stories from a book that was written by dozens of men over thousands of years and edited more times then a George Lucus film.

 

[phinds]

That is so strange, you would think going through academia for that long, you would be less prone to things that didn't make sense. Especially coming from a STEM subject, its pretty amazing that they believe stories from a book that was written by dozens of men over thousands of years and edited more times then a George Lucus film.

Religion is a matter of faith and has nothing to do with facts or science. He believed all this from early teaching and it became a matter of faith, not subject to rational analysis.

 

[DHF]

Religion is a matter of faith and has nothing to do with facts or science. He believed all this from early teaching and it became a matter of faith, not subject to rational analysis.

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

 

[Sophia]

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

I think that what one believes in depends more on their personality, level of emotionality, life experiences and community one lives in etc.
Faith is a completely different area than logical thinking. It's like saying how can anyone enjoy art if they know that music is only vibrations and colours on paintings are caused by wavelengths emitted by chemical substances. If you know this, how can you think art is something more?
Some people enjoy art, some not so much. It has little to do with science education.
The same goes for faith. You either were not so attached to your Catholic faith from the beginning, or your faith was based on the fact that it seemed to logically explain the origin of life. Once you found a better explanation, you changed your mind.
People who believe even with high level of education either believe strongly emotionally, or they use religion as a source of meaning to life. They want their life to have a deeper meaning and science cannot provide that for all people (I am not saying that atheists must be depressed and their lives have no meaning. I'm saying what SOME religious people think). That is probably the reason they refuse evolution. And there are other historical and cultural reasons, especially for American evangelists. It has to do with American puritans, fear of nazism and communism, even when some of them are not aware of it. In short, American Christians have much bigger problem believing in evolution compared to Europeans. It Is a long history that can't be explained in a short post.
In Europe, mainstream churches have no problem combing evolution and faith. In fact, that was one of the reasons I joined Catholic Church even though I am definitely not orthodox. My professor of environmental ethics is both MA in biology and a Catholic priest. He even makes money by writing books about fusing Christianity and evolution.

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

 

[DHF]

Sophia, thank you for that, this is something that I guess I always took for granted and it was very interesting to see your take on it. I was particularly interested in reading how religious organisations in Europe deal with the issues. When I was in England I never really paid attention to how churches behaved. thank you again for the post, it was very enlightening.

 

[Hornbein]

Fair enough, I just fin it fascinating that he chose to excel in mathematics, pretty much the poster child for logic and yet was able to keep his faith separate. To each his own, as long as you don't hurt anyone, believe what you want. I just find it really interesting that he could keep two radically different idea sets at the same time.

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

No large human-created-and-used system is perfect. You take what you can use and disregard the rest.

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

If a Muggle shows signs of magic, then either the gene was dormant and skipped generations, or somebody is lying (they were adopted or the mother cheated).

Perhaps the father cheated?

"How does that work?", I hear you ask. Magic, duh!

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

I was raised catholic, I was never taught evolution by my family, creation was the only explanation given to me. When I discovered evolution later on, it just made sense.

Darwinian Evolution is a good story. Provably wrong, but it just makes sense.

(Genetic drift, cross species DNA transfer, variable mutation rates, etc. all disprove strict Darwinian Evolution. So no, I'm not a young earther. Modern Evolutionary Synthesis is a far cry from Darwin's original hypothesis.)

"It just makes sense" isn't a much better argument than the literal acceptance of 2500 year old parables, IMO.

 

[DaveC426913]

So far, everyone's been talking about either the storage devices or conduits for the magic. Anyone have any ideas from whence the magic comes in order to get into the blood or wand?

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

So far, everyone's been talking about either the storage devices or conduits for the magic. Anyone have any ideas from whence the magic comes in order to get into the blood or wand?

Magic is about emergent patterns. Specifically it's about emergent patterns in the human brain that don't quite fit reality. The patterns are usually useful for some purposes and not useful for others. Between the two groups is a grey area where they might seem useful but aren't in reality.

But because they seem useful, they leave holes which can be exploited.

For example we might dream of special powers that let us acquire money. This can motivate us to get up and go to work. Or it can motivate us to dream of breaking into Gringots or worse actually rob a real bank. So on one side of the pattern there's a useful industriousness and on the other greed and violence. But between them is a magical world of imagination. In this grey area our mental defenses are weak.

From our excess fantasies, and through these weakly defended grey areas a form of imaginary power seeps. That power seeps into blood and wands fueling our hopes for the heroes and fears of the villains.

 

[DaveC426913]

From our excess fantasies, and through these weakly defended grey areas a form of imaginary power seeps. That power seeps into blood and wands fueling our hopes for the heroes and fears of the villains.

... and from this emanates a bolt of plasma that could atomize a trolleycar?

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

... and from this emanates a bolt of plasma that could atomize a trolleycar?

Exactly.

 

[Hornbein]

... and from this emanates a bolt of plasma that could atomize a trolleycar?

Happens all the time. But more usually to a trollcar.

 

[James Holland]

i think potter and all were taking hard core drugs and seeing things with no noses

 

[Megaquark]

According to Arthur C. Clarke's third law, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic...so obviously the source of wizard power is sufficiently advanced technology...I'm guessing it was handed down from space wizards who lived a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Can you elaborate further on why the source of power could be “sometimes no” in the bloodlines?

The Wizard gene is dominant, whereas Muggle genes are recessive. If a Muggle shows signs of magic, then either the gene was dormant and skipped generations, or somebody is lying (they were adopted or the mother cheated). You cannot transform a Muggle into a Wizard. I think that the controversy was centered more around purity and power, but the magic had to originate in the bloodlines to even begin that feud.

In that case Muggles would have Wizard blood. The Courts trying "fake wizards" claimed they had no Wizard blood. The Wizarding world would have had ways to detect Wizard blood in people, the issue had been critical to them for centuries.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

According to Arthur C. Clarke's third law, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic...so obviously the source of wizard power is sufficiently advanced technology...I'm guessing it was handed down from space wizards who lived a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

He also said, with some degree of exasperation, that he didn't mean the advanced technology WAS magic.

 

[Fervent Freyja]

In that case Muggles would have Wizard blood. The Courts trying "fake wizards" claimed they had no Wizard blood. The Wizarding world would have had ways to detect Wizard blood in people, the issue had been critical to them for centuries.

Ways of detecting active Wizard genes in muggles had been limited. They did not have a way to determine what people around the world were unwittingly showing signs of magic in public. Most believed that exposure of the Wizarding world to the Muggle world would be the end of them all- their fear was that they would be hunted down by the Muggles. But, the elitist Wizards believed that breeding with their own kind would lessen the occurrence of that threat and protect the magical world. Those that disagreed with their agenda and continued risking exposure were marked for removal. Rowling based this aspect mainly around Nazi Germany...

Is that picture from your earlier years? How old are you really? I would get a kick of out my Grandpa reading Harry Potter...

 

[Khatti]

Is that picture from your earlier years? How old are you really? I would get a kick of out my Grandpa reading Harry Potter..

If I'm not mistaken Ma'am Noisy uses the cadet photo of Robert Anson Heinlein as his Avatar. I seem to remember it from Heinlein's biography.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Ways of detecting active Wizard genes in muggles had been limited. They did not have a way to determine what people around the world were unwittingly showing signs of magic in public. Most believed that exposure of the Wizarding world to the Muggle world would be the end of them all- their fear was that they would be hunted down by the Muggles. But, the elitist Wizards believed that breeding with their own kind would lessen the occurrence of that threat and protect the magical world. Those that disagreed with their agenda and continued risking exposure were marked for removal. Rowling based this aspect mainly around Nazi Germany...

Is that picture from your earlier years? How old are you really? I would get a kick of out my Grandpa reading Harry Potter...

I was born in 1951.