Who Will Be the New Pope?

[cronxeh]

you don't even know what truth is, or how to obtain it, let alone whether it would be painful

indeed, god does suck. its creation is trully a pointless blob of empty space linked by energy

 

[stoned]

you don't even know what truth is

enlighten me please !

 

[cronxeh]

i don't know what the truth is. if i knew, i won't be camping the forums seeking for it, would i?

now you claim to not be swayed by the truth in any way. what if you could imagine your state of mind as an undamped system where there is no vibration going on. now the truth is introduced and you are either feeling good (+ vibration), or you are disturbed by it (- vibration). This would be the indication of truth. Have you ever experienced truth?

If truth is to be of any effect on you, it surely would play an effect on other people. So statistically, if you introduced the truth to a large group of people, they would all react the same more or less. The least squares method would establish that there would be a correlation between the effects of the truth on all people, since by composition and intellectual texture people are alike.

 

[Moses]

Thanks cronxeh for explaining you idea including some examples and arguments. I do appreciate your effort

Your idea of the (+) and (-) is similar as if we can say if a person find the truth he will be enlightened or "finding the light" and the opposite which could be called "going astray".

I am TOTALLY agreeing with you abuot the last statemnt, that truth, is it presented as what is it, aka truth as presented to poeple as truth [i know its kinda saying simple issue, but its a part of the flow] all will percive it more or less the same, very almost the same. However, it will vary how they will react to it, all may agree it is "the right" issue, but some may be arrogant and don't want to accept it. Others may have it mixed with some propganda and thus judging truth based on propaganda about it will most likely lead to inaccurate conclusion. Others may have an error while doing the judging process even they got correct informations about the truth...etc

a Very bottom line in this issue is to me, personally, having a faith in teuth not based on logic is not valid, at least to me. I think any faith done by mind shuold be questioned by mind.

 

[Moses]

indeed, god does suck. its creation is trully a pointless blob of empty space linked by energy

Mmmm...i am sure Universe-Master does not suck. I am sure this description about Universe-Master creations is kind of reductionism.

 

[Bladibla]

I won't feel dumb if a stupid guy is luaghing at me without a reason, i may ignore, and if i am sure i can get him later, then LOL!

Edit: if instead of "is", the first "is" in the first line. Edited becuase of typo.

So God will get us back will he? Not the most caring of things is he?

And even if god exists, i can be sure we can just ignore 'it'. I mean, what kind of God gives tsunamis to its creation?

 

[Monique]

So God will get us back will he? Not the most caring of things is he?

And even if god exists, i can be sure we can just ignore 'it'. I mean, what kind of God gives tsunamis to its creation?

We don't support discussions on the existence of a God or his actions at physicsforums, so I suggest to get back to the topic.

 

[marlon]

Nuntio vobis gaudium magnum: Habemus Papam

Here is another question : how much does the pope make a month ?

marlon

 

[arildno]

Here is another question : how much does the pope make a month ?

marlon

I would assume he doesn't have any fixed salary at all.

 

[dextercioby]

They elected a Nazi Pope.Ain't that CUTE...?

Daniel.

 

[arildno]

They elected a Nazi Pope.Ain't that CUTE...?

Daniel.

Eeh, I wouldn't call a guy who was conscripted to Hitler-Jugend at the age of 14 should be termed a Nazi.

 

[dextercioby]

His education in school was entirely made under Nazism...

Daniel.

P.S.He would have gotten the chance to shoot Commies & Yanks,if the war hadn't ended when it did...

 

[so-crates]

I don't blame Ratzinger for his actions or lack thereof during WWII, just like I don't blame a lot of Americans in their participation in the Vietnam War despite strong moral objections. He was fairly young (turned 18 in 1945) and he got away when the opportunity presented itself. Consider what you would have done had you been in that situation. It is tempting to say 'I would have resisted, despite the extreme risk' but when push comes to shove, it is not so easy.

 

[arildno]

His education in school was entirely made under Nazism...

Was that his fault?
The one redeeming feature I find with Ratzinger is that he has been clear and open about his upbringing, and equally clear in his rejection of that thought-system.
(This is what I've heard is a big part in his autobiography; since I don't find the lives of clerics exceptionally interesting at the outset, I haven't bothered to read it myself)

He would have gotten the chance to shoot Commies & Yanks,if the war hadn't ended when it did...

I couldn't care less about that facet. War is an ugly business.

 

[so-crates]

A quick question:
How many of you that are calling for change in the church are actually catholic?
If you are not, why do you care?
Personally, I believe that the church should remain the way that it has been for thousands of years, because that's the way it should be, its tradition. You want to change it?, become a pope. If you are catholic and don't like the way it is, then leave and do you own thing. The reason that priests aren't married is because Jesus wasn't. I know that i will catch heat from you Dan Brown types, but I have read the Da Vinci Code, and it had a great plot, but Jesus wasn't married. Sure, he could have been, but he wasn't. If he was, i would have no problim with married priests. Besides, Priests need to be devoted to God, not wives. I don't hear any priests that want to get married, if they wanted to they would not be priests. Also, i would have no problim with female priests if jesus was a female, but he wasn't. Priests take the place of Jesus, they concecrate the eucharist and only they can do that, because they took 'holy orders' from jesus.

I do hope you understand.

Fibonacci

Diocesan (local) priests were allowed to marry in the early church. St. Peter(the first pope) was married. The Church started enforcing celibacy in the late middle ages to prevent a lot of politics, corruption and nepotism. If a priest has a family, he will often be divided between the interests of his family and the interests of the Church. You see this a lot in protestant circles, where the position is used to gain personal wealth and the father will 'hand over' the ministry to his son, etc.. Although the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches don't seem to have a big problem with that - and they allow their priests to marry although they have to do so before joining the priesthood and cannot remarry if their wife passes away before them, much as Deacons in the Catholic church. Order priests (Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, etc.) have never been allowed to marry.

The celibacy of the priesthood is not going to be changed under Ratzinger. In theory, it could be changed without a gross violation of tradition (it is discipline and not doctrine/dogma) The same does not hold true for women in the clergy - this has always been a fundamental doctrine of the church.

 

[Nylex]

I want to prod him and say, "good popey pope!".

 

[vanesch]

I saw a report on yesterday explaining how the conclave originated. Apparently, way back, somewhere like the 15th century (I didn't listen hard enough to catch the century),

I think it was in 1241 or something of the kind.

cheers,
Patrick.

 

[revelator]

His education in school was entirely made under Nazism...

Daniel.

P.S.He would have gotten the chance to shoot Commies & Yanks,if the war hadn't ended when it did...

If I recall correctly, he deserted the German army, and was caught by American soldiers and sent to a POW camp.

What gets me about the recent events, are all the people clamoring for reform and whatnot. I'm not religious, but I thought that the believers were supposed to live their lives accordin to doctrine, not change doctrine to suit their whims. I guess the people in question, just want to be Catholics on their own terms, rather than on God's terms (assuming the Catholic church actually speaks for God :uhh: )

I find the most ridiculous reform being called for, is church sanctioned abortion. I'm pro-choice myself, but think the idea of the church sanctioning the destruction of potential life is just ludicrous.

 

[cronxeh]

and there, i get my morning dose of laughter

 

[arildno]

I find the most ridiculous reform being called for, is church sanctioned abortion. I'm pro-choice myself, but think the idea of the church sanctioning the destruction of potential life is just ludicrous.

Yes, you're absolutely right.
The catholic church has a long history of not caring a whit about REAL lives and actual human happiness. Rather, they are interested in fantasy lives dreamed up by deluded priests.

 

[revelator]

Sorry, maybe I'm just tired (long night of work), but on which part do you agree?

 

[arildno]

That it is ludicrous to believe that the church will come to its senses with respect to the abortion issue.

 

[revelator]

Actually, then dude, I think we are in complete disagreement. I think the idea of church sanctioned abortion is ludicrous (despite my being pro-choice). How can an institute that is supposed to be "holy" support the destruction of life, even if that life is only a potential?

What I meant originally, is that it should be the Catholics who live their lives according to doctrine, rather than changing the doctrine to suit the Christians.

 

[Smurf]

If I recall correctly, he deserted the German army, and was caught by American soldiers and sent to a POW camp.

What gets me about the recent events, are all the people clamoring for reform and whatnot. I'm not religious, but I thought that the believers were supposed to live their lives accordin to doctrine, not change doctrine to suit their whims. I guess the people in question, just want to be Catholics on their own terms, rather than on God's terms (assuming the Catholic church actually speaks for God :uhh: )

I find the most ridiculous reform being called for, is church sanctioned abortion. I'm pro-choice myself, but think the idea of the church sanctioning the destruction of potential life is just ludicrous.

You bring up some good point here. I think it's obvious that the information revolution is having an affect on religion now. It's becoming obvious to everyone exactly how the church works, people are referring to cardinals as having 'opinions' and the pope is 'conservative', he's not divinly inspired and appointed, he's democratically elected, in an actualy almost campaign-esque fashion.
People are calling for reformation of the church to suit society, if they really believed it was inspired by god 1. this wouldn't be possible and, 2. it would be a horrible thing to try to change it. It's pretty obvious that the masses are beginning (or already) to lose faith that the church is a see-all know-all organization. While this won't shake people's belief in god as a concept, its pretty obvious people are beginning to believe he doesn't interfere at all in our own world.

 

[revelator]

Indeed. I was raised Catholic myself, but was never much on "just have faith" (that's a cop out, so you don't have to think for yourself). I do agree with many of Catholicism's ideals, but will stop short at believing in an All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Caring (how can He possibly be all three?!) God.

There may be a God, I don't know. But I'll behave ethically simply because its the right thing to do, I don't need a God to tell me that.

 

[cronxeh]

pretty cool how they elected a new, german, nazism-raised pope, by hitler's birthday

 

[plus]

Why does this seem similar to seeing what country/city the next Olympics will be held in? Well maybe the Africans and Latin Americans will have better luck next time.

The reason they do not get the olympics is because it costs really a lot of money to host and cannot afford the facilities. This is not similar to being a pope.
There has never been an american pope either.

 

[revelator]

I think he said that, because people are betting on which country the next Pope comes from, and behavior of that nature..

 

[plus]

Priests not allowed to marry? No female priests?

What would change, why wouldn't it be the same? If it would change it means that the footing of the people is not very strong when it is influenced by such factors, in my opinion.

Does that mean that females should not be allowed to have careers, or just not religious careers? Does that mean that females should not be allowed to become president either?

There is a specific doctrine set down in religious documents which gives women roles as it does for men. Theology should not necessarily be equal to the latest fads whatever they may be. It is more difficult to have opinions which differ from the norm than opinions which are equal.

 

[Clausius2]

I guess this election should be a big priority on cardinals schedules, as long sa it takes. If your guess is true, it won't be an impressive thing to know. Specially if chosing the new Pope is one of the most important descions cardinals have to made in their lifes for the church and their own people...

This time we do agree!

 

[Clausius2]

Priests not allowed to marry? No female priests?

What would change, why wouldn't it be the same? If it would change it means that the footing of the people is not very strong when it is influenced by such factors, in my opinion.

Does that mean that females should not be allowed to have careers, or just not religious careers? Does that mean that females should not be allowed to become president either?

Don't forget there are others religions which have less consideration toward women than it has the catholic church.

Let's refrain from posting opinions about different religions.

I hope this time you are not saying this because of me. :tongue2:

 

[marlon]

They elected a Nazi Pope.Ain't that CUTE...?

Daniel.

Untrue...read your history dexter...do you know how children were 'selected' to join the HitlerJugend ?

You cannot judge a person because of his nation's political leaders...In that case, we could do just the same with YOU... I am sure which person i am referring to

marlon

 

[Clausius2]

Yes, you're absolutely right.
The catholic church has a long history of not caring a whit about REAL lives and actual human happiness. Rather, they are interested in fantasy lives dreamed up by deluded priests.

From my point of view I think catholic church has had such long history of careless about human life, especially in the Middle Age, although it is true that current catholic church is not the same than the one at the time of Torquemada. They have evolutionated to modern thinkings, or at least this was the purpose of J.Paul II. We do know they have some ways of life and opinions which seem to remain in the past, but the current rithm of convergence is valuable.

I don't like you talk in present tense, Arildno. There are too many priests who go to Africa to take care to poor people without making nothing a month, only for the desire of helping. Also, the priests of small churches (like the one of my village) desires to help people in order to provide them additional wearing or food.

Such church is neccesary nowadays in a world filled of insolidarity.

 

[marlon]

I don't like you talk in present tense, Arildno. There are too many priests who go to Africa to take care to poor people without making nothing a month, only for the desire of helping. Also, the priests of small churches (like the one of my village) desires to help people in order to provide them additional wearing or food.

Such church is neccesary nowadays in a world filled of insolidarity.

I totally agree with Clausius...

marlon

 

[arildno]

From my point of view I think catholic church has had such long history of careless about human life, especially in the Middle Age, although it is true that current catholic church is not the same than the one at the time of Torquemada. They have evolutionated to modern thinkings, or at least this was the purpose of J.Paul II. We do know they have some ways of life and opinions which seem to remain in the past, but the current rithm of convergence is valuable.

I don't like you talk in present tense, Arildno. There are too many priests who go to Africa to take care to poor people without making nothing a month, only for the desire of helping. Also, the priests of small churches (like the one of my village) desires to help people in order to provide them additional wearing or food.

Such church is neccesary nowadays in a world filled of insolidarity.

I agree; I was way out of line here.
The fact that I feel very strongly about the abortion issue, I should not blind myself to the great work that many of the ordinary clergy is involved in.
Sorry..