Why are higher energy flames blue?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the color of flames, specifically why higher energy flames appear blue rather than red. Participants explore the relationship between flame color, temperature, and the underlying chemical processes involved, touching on concepts of combustion and light emission.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that red light has a smaller wavelength than blue and therefore should have more energy, questioning the observed blue color of hotter flames.
  • One participant challenges this notion, stating that there is no direct correlation between wavelength and flame temperature.
  • Another participant explains that blue light primarily comes from CH radicals emitting light at around 430 nm, which is independent of flame temperature.
  • It is noted that red flames often indicate suboptimal combustion conditions, leading to soot formation, which glows orange/red and can occur at higher temperatures than blue flames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between flame color and temperature, with no consensus reached on the initial assumptions regarding wavelength and energy.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific combustion conditions and the presence of different chemical species, which may not be universally applicable.

acesuv
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I thought red has a smaller wavelength than blue and therefore red has more energy than blue. So why is it that hotter flames glow with a blue color?
 
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acesuv said:
I thought red has a smaller wavelength than blue
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A.T. said:
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Hmmmmm
 
acesuv said:
I thought red has a smaller wavelength than blue and therefore red has more energy than blue.

Apparently, you were misinformed.
 
There is no direct correlation between the wavelength and the flame temperature.

The blue light comes mostly from CH radicals that are formed in the flame and emit light at around 430 nm. This can be clearly seen in e.g. natural gas cooking devices. This color is independent of the flame temperature, so if you would burn with a larger excess of oxygen, the flame temperature would drop, but the flame would still emit blue light (although it will be with less intensity). When a flame colors red then it is usually because the combustion is somehow not optimal (usually there is locally a lack of oxygen) and soot is formed in the flame. Soot is basically carbon molecules, and they glow orange/red in the flame. This happens for instance in candle flames. The extra radiation of the soot lowers the temperature of the flame, so there is some correlation between color and temperature but you can have 'red' flames with a higher temperature than 'blue' flames.
 
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