Why does the surface term in the Abelian theory vanish for EM CP-violation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the absence of a term in the Standard Model Lagrangian for the U(1)_Y gauge group that resembles the CP-violating term present in strong interactions, specifically the term F_{\mu \nu} \tilde{F}^{\mu \nu}. Participants explore the implications of this absence in the context of Abelian theories and the conditions under which such terms might be considered.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why a term like F_{\mu \nu} \tilde{F}^{\mu \nu} cannot exist in the Standard Model for U(1)_Y, contrasting it with similar terms in strong interactions.
  • Another participant asserts that in an Abelian theory, the term F^{\mu\nu}\tilde F_{\mu\nu} is a total derivative, which leads to its vanishing under certain conditions.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the issue is not solely about total derivatives, referencing the strong CP problem and the work of t'Hooft, indicating that gauge transformations play a significant role.
  • It is noted that while a CP-violating theta term is theoretically possible in electroweak theory, it is unobservable and can be eliminated through chiral transformations, whereas the Abelian case is more straightforward.
  • One participant elaborates on the chiral anomaly in QCD and its implications for the action, drawing parallels with the Abelian case but questioning the differences in boundary conditions and gauge transformations.
  • Another participant suggests that the integral of a specific term for SU(2) provides insight into why the corresponding term vanishes for U(1).
  • A later post claims that the surface term in the Abelian theory indeed vanishes, proposing various methods to demonstrate this, including direct computation and asymptotic analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of total derivatives in Abelian theories and the role of gauge transformations. There is no consensus on the reasons behind the vanishing of the surface term, with multiple competing interpretations presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical constructs and theorems, including the work of t'Hooft, without resolving the underlying assumptions or conditions that lead to their conclusions. The discussion remains focused on theoretical implications rather than empirical validation.

ChrisVer
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Why can't there be a term in the SM lagrangian for the U(1)_Y of the form:

[itex]F_{\mu \nu} \tilde{F}^{\mu \nu}[/itex] ?

As there is for the strong interactions?

(Although I've seen such terms appearing in the axion models, such as the KSVZ where by introducing an additional very heavy quark Q with charge [itex]e_Q[/itex], you can have the coupling of the axion field [itex]\alpha[/itex] with light quarks via the EM anomalies: [itex]L_{EM-anom} = \frac{a}{f_a} 3 e_Q^2 \frac{\alpha_{fine-str}}{4 \pi} F_{\mu \nu} \tilde{F}^{\mu \nu}[/itex] )
 
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For an abelian theory, ##F^{\mu\nu}\tilde F_{\mu\nu}## is a total derivative:
$$
\partial_\mu \epsilon^{\mu\nu\rho\sigma} A_\nu \partial_\rho A_\sigma =
\epsilon^{\mu\nu\rho\sigma} [(\partial_\mu A_\nu)(\partial_\rho A_\sigma) + A_\nu \partial_\mu \partial_\rho A_\sigma].
$$
The last term disappears due to the derivatives commuting and ##\epsilon## being asymmetric. The first term is proportional to ##F^{\mu\nu}\tilde F_{\mu\nu}##.
 
The problem is not about total derivatives, because even in strong CP-problem, the term of [itex]\bar{\theta}[/itex] : [itex]G \tilde{G}[/itex] is a total derivative/can be expressed as such. t'Hoft however showed that this total derivative integral doesn't vanish for every gauge...so I guess, It has to do with the gauge transformations in some way...
 
It's perfectly legitimate to worry about a CP violating theta term for say the electroweak theory, with the different group structure, although it turns out that such a term is unobservable, and can be rotated away by a suitable chiral transformation. However for the Abelian theory, post 2 is essentially all there is too it.
 
I will try to write it down in maths?

In the QCD, a resolution to the [itex]U_A(1)[/itex] problem, is provided by the chiral anomaly for axial currents.
The axial current assosiated with the [itex]U_A(1)[/itex] gets quantum corrections from the triangle graph which connects it to two gluon fields with quarks going around the loop. This anomaly gives a non-zero divergence of the axial current:

[itex]\partial_\mu J^\mu_5 = \frac{g_s^2 N}{32 \pi^2} G^{\mu \nu}_a \tilde{G}_{a \mu \nu} \ne 0[/itex]

This chiral anomaly affects the action:

[itex]\delta Z \propto \int d^4 x \partial_\mu J^\mu_5 = \frac{g_s^2 N}{32 \pi^2} \int d^4 x G^{\mu \nu}_a \tilde{G}_{a \mu \nu}[/itex]

And it can be further shown that the [itex]G \tilde{G}[/itex] can be expressed in terms of a total divergence (just like the QED field strength tensors), [itex]G^{\mu \nu}_a \tilde{G}_{a \mu \nu}= \partial_\mu K^\mu[/itex]

with [itex]K^\mu = \epsilon^{\mu \rho \sigma \omega} A_{a \rho} [ G_{a \sigma \omega} - \frac{g_s}{3} f_{abc} A_{\sigma b} A_{\omega c} ][/itex]

the problem then comes when you insert this in the action integral above and you reach:

[itex]\delta Z \propto \frac{g_s^2 N}{32 \pi^2} \int \sigma_\mu K^\mu \ne 0[/itex]

The last was shown by t'Hoft, because the right boundary condition to use is that [itex]A[/itex] is a pure gauge field at spatial infinity, either then A=0 or a gauge transformation of 0...

Now what's the difference with the same thing you can obtain for the action in QED?
@Orodruin in his post, showed exactly that [itex]F \tilde{F} = c \partial_\mu T^\mu[/itex]

So in the action, you will have contributions of the form:

[itex]\delta Z' \propto \int d^4 x \partial_\mu T^\mu = \int d \sigma_\mu T^\mu[/itex]

Why in this case the infinity is taken to be T=0 and not a general gauge transformation of T: [itex]T' = T + \partial a[/itex] so a gauge transformation of 0?

I hope I made clear my problem?
Thanks...
 
If you do the integral [itex]\int d \sigma^{ \mu } K_{ \mu }[/itex] for [itex]SU(2)[/itex], the calculation will tell you why it vanishes for [itex]U(1)[/itex].
 
ChrisVer said:
I will try to write it down in maths?
I hope I made clear my problem?
Thanks...

Good! So my claim is that the surface term in the Abelian theory vanishes. To see this, you can try direct computation, you can show it by asymptotic analysis, or you can be really clever and argue it away by topological arguments.

I will give you a hint on how to do it the second way. Note that to keep the action finite, we require that the (F Fbar) term decreases faster than O(1/r^2) where we set our boundary conditions to be the (euclidean) hypersphere as the radius r goes off to infinity. Show that this means that the total derivative goes as O(1/r^5) and that therefore the surface term vanishes.
 
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