You guys are gonna think im either stupid or crazy

[Hydr0matic]

Google is your friend.

 

[russ_watters]

My main question is, is there an alloy or metal that can block a magnetic field?

Ahh, I get it now - you think by blocking and un-blocking a magnetic field you can get free energyin a sort of powerles motor. Very, very common hoax/error: you can't, but maybe you need to build it before you believe it...

 

[Arsonade]

Ahh, I get it now - you think by blocking and un-blocking a magnetic field you can get free energyin a sort of powerles motor. Very, very common hoax/error: you can't, but maybe you need to build it before you believe it...

...no, in fact the PMM would work just fine without any magnetic blocking, it would just be a lot more effecient with it, maybe adding more to the ooutput, makeing it spin faster, if it had been a key factor i would have introduced it earlyer on. also, i think that steel is the alloy i am looking for, have to double check.

Adam

 

[Arsonade]

In the strictest sense, magnetic shielding is not truly shielding at all. Unlike the way a lead shield stops X-rays, magnetic shielding materials create an area of lower magnetic field in their vicinity by attracting the magnetic field lines to themselves. The physical property which allows them to do this is called "permeability".

got this from a link off site #1, this is all i needed, i don't need to stop the fields so much as weaken them in certain ares, this is mostly in the effort of building, also, this will prevent magnetic fields from interfering with each other enough to increce the output of my PMM signifigantly, Thanks!

Adam

 

[Gokul43201]

You can completely shield a magnetic field using a superconductor. Nothing else will work.

 

[Arsonade]

You can completely shield a magnetic field using a superconductor. Nothing else will work.

Ya i found sum foil like stuff online, forget wat it's called though.

Adam

 

[Gokul43201]

The best (highest Tc) superconductors around work only at about 140K (that's nearly -200F) !

 

[Arsonade]

The best (highest Tc) superconductors around work only at about 140K (that's nearly -200F) !

ya an my magnets won't work at that temp,of corse, there is another kind, but no, that's too complicated (theres a new type of magnet, ceramic in liquid nitrogen temps with an electiic current run through it has proven to be stronger than a neodyum magnet but of couse that meens my entire mechinism encased in liquid nitrogen goodbye no friction, i bet my structuure would fall apart and i would still need to run power through those ceramics, ill stick (no pun intended) to my origional plan) but no, I've seen some less effective supercunducters that work @ room temp, just some of that should work for what i need it.

Adam

P.S. I've been raising money for this PMM and i should have enough to buy the materials by the end of the summer if I am lucky, i know i can get a pattent aplication but i havnt been able to, anybody want to walk me through on the website?

 

[Ravenlock]

re

I just can't take a guy seriously who says he has invented a PMM, yet continually spells patent wrong.

Ravenlock

 

[Arsonade]

I just can't take a guy seriously who says he has invented a PMM, yet continually spells patent wrong.

Ravenlock

lol now there's na excuse, i have the soulution to worldwide cheep clean energy and this guy thinks I am lying cause i made some spelling mistakes lol, i was exited man, i get exited about this stuff, i just went fast is all, stop reading the words and listen to wat I am saying.

Adam

 

[russ_watters]

lol now there's na excuse, i have the soulution to worldwide cheep clean energy and this guy thinks I am lying cause i made some spelling mistakes...

Not lying, just wrong. It really should tell you something that we can be so confident that you are wrong without knowing much of anything about your device. You have made an error and you need to find it before you waste any more time/money in this pursuit. Pursuing a patent will get expensive.

Have you at least researched to compare your device to other PMMs?

 

[Arsonade]

Not lying, just wrong. It really should tell you something that we can be so confident that you are wrong without knowing much of anything about your device. You have made an error and you need to find it before you waste any more time/money in this pursuit. Pursuing a patent will get expensive.

Have you at least researched to compare your device to other PMMs?

yes i have, i still find my design to lack the flaws that others did, friction, power source, acceleration, ect, all problems that mine has managed to get through, i do realize that, I am not stupid, as soon as i mentioned this to others for their oppinion they got that "o great not another one" smile on their face and patiently described the reasons why it wouldn't work, some didnt even look at the designs befor they sent me off without any kind of help. They were confident that i was wrong too, if i had made an error, i think 3 years should have been enough time to find an error, as i have over the years, but instead of giving up, i simply changed the designs and eliminated the problem, it has gotten to the point where i can serriosly doubt that an eroor has been made short of a very trivial one (like what the thing is actually made of for example, i was thinking about industrial strength plastic) whitch could be changed without a second thought. I truly believe any and all serios errors have been found and fixed, so now i have found no errors, what is you sugestion now? well i know what i am going to do, i am going to get as many talks and interveiw with phycasists with nondisclosure forms as i can, when i have enough people to back this up, that's when ill send in My Pattent.

Adam

P.S. Sorry if i sound a little grumpy, I am tired and i have to study for my Spanish exam tomorow :yuck:

 

[russ_watters]

friction, power source, acceleration, ect, all problems that mine has managed to get through...

To help you focus, what you are looking for are 1st law of thermo issues. Don't bother with friction, acceleration, and other losses, they are 2nd law issues. What prevents PPMs from creating useful work is the 1st law: Pout=Pin. The fact that your calculations come up with a non-zero net (>100% efficiency) means you are either neglecting a source of input or a source of internal consumption. A typical thermodynamic engine, for example, has an efficiency of around 35%, before you even consider losses. Electrical devices have a theoretical maximum efficiency of 100%.

I may have suggested this before, but a cheap way to fix this would be to hire an electrical engineer for an hour or two, with a written contract stating that he can't market your device. He'd likely find your error in 5 minutes and charge you $125 for the whole hour, but it'd save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

 

[ram1024]

or build the device yourself out of popsicle sticks and elmer's. nothing like first hand experience to remove all doubt...

 

[Ravenlock]

Here is a actual quote from the US Patent Office regarding PPM's

"The views of the Patent Office are in accord with those scientists who have investigated the subject and are to the effect that such devices are physical impossibilities. The position of the Office can only be rebutted by a working model. ... The Office hesitates to accept fees from applicants who believe they have discovered Perpetual Motion, and deems it only fair to give such applicants a word of warning that fees cannot be recovered after the case has been considered by the Examiner"

I just thought that was interesting.

 

[Arsonade]

Here is a actual quote from the US Patent Office regarding PPM's

"The views of the Patent Office are in accord with those scientists who have investigated the subject and are to the effect that such devices are physical impossibilities. The position of the Office can only be rebutted by a working model. ... The Office hesitates to accept fees from applicants who believe they have discovered Perpetual Motion, and deems it only fair to give such applicants a word of warning that fees cannot be recovered after the case has been considered by the Examiner"

I just thought that was interesting.

i believe that it says, Can only be rebutted by a working model, so ill build a working model, i already said that i plan to

Adam

 

[Arsonade]

To help you focus, what you are looking for are 1st law of thermo issues. Don't bother with friction, acceleration, and other losses, they are 2nd law issues. What prevents PPMs from creating useful work is the 1st law: Pout=Pin. The fact that your calculations come up with a non-zero net (>100% efficiency) means you are either neglecting a source of input or a source of internal consumption. A typical thermodynamic engine, for example, has an efficiency of around 35%, before you even consider losses. Electrical devices have a theoretical maximum efficiency of 100%.

I may have suggested this before, but a cheap way to fix this would be to hire an electrical engineer for an hour or two, with a written contract stating that he can't market your device. He'd likely find your error in 5 minutes and charge you $125 for the whole hour, but it'd save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

Now hold on, i never said that it worked at 100% efficiancy, i said that it was close, there is very little error available in the design and therefore works relitively efficiant. would that be more expensive that asking a physisist? and the electronics are not really the problem, the only elctic component is the generator.

Adam

 

[Arsonade]

or build the device yourself out of popsicle sticks and elmer's. nothing like first hand experience to remove all doubt...

lol well popsticle sticks would break and wouldn't give me nearly enough info, it wouldn't even be big enough for the magnets, no, i can't go that cheep.

Adam

 

[ram1024]

use smaller magnets.

if it works on a small scale it'll work on a larger scale as well. nothing says your machine has to be house-sized ;D

 

[ArmoSkater87]

u can't use magnets for a perpetual motion machine, magnet (permanent ones) wear off over time. Eletromagnets are a whole different story, and obviously can't be used for perpetual motion.

 

[russ_watters]

Now hold on, i never said that it worked at 100% efficiancy, i said that it was close, there is very little error available in the design and therefore works relitively efficiant.

If it doesn't work at above 100% efficiency then it doesn't output more than is put in and it isn't a PMM. If its just a >1 C.O.P., (like a heat pump or a hydroelectric dam) then it isn't perpetual motion.

would that be more expensive that asking a physisist? and the electronics are not really the problem, the only elctic component is the generator.

Ask whatever type of scientist/engineer that would understand the energy input/conversion. I was getting the picture that you have a fancy circuit of some sort that makes it appear you are getting more out than is being put in. That's why I suggested an EE.

May I ask what type of energy you have for an input?

 

[Arsonade]

u can't use magnets for a perpetual motion machine, magnet (permanent ones) wear off over time. Eletromagnets are a whole different story, and obviously can't be used for perpetual motion.

Look theses magnets do wear out, but the energy used I am making them is easyly 1 billionth of the amount of energy produced in the length of time, the chances of me having to replace these magnets is slim, but in that event i am ready.

Adam

 

[Arsonade]

use smaller magnets.

if it works on a small scale it'll work on a larger scale as well. nothing says your machine has to be house-sized ;D

cant getem that small, it needs to be at least 2 feet high

Adam

 

[Arsonade]

If it doesn't work at above 100% efficiency then it doesn't output more than is put in and it isn't a PMM. If its just a >1 C.O.P., (like a heat pump or a hydroelectric dam) then it isn't perpetual motion. Ask whatever type of scientist/engineer that would understand the energy input/conversion. I was getting the picture that you have a fancy circuit of some sort that makes it appear you are getting more out than is being put in. That's why I suggested an EE.

May I ask what type of energy you have for an input?

really there is no kind of imput energy, that would kind of take away from the meaning of a closed system, magnettic? is that a good answer lol. Ill try the best i can with the nondisclosure form stuff, I am workin on it.\

Adam

 

[jammieg]

The universe is in itself a perpetual motion machine, I'll bet with many more undiscovered ways of tapping into it's energy and manipulating it.

 

[OscarM]

Frequent error is to have an error related to "magnet shielding" using diamagnetic material.

Normally, It is considered that diamagnetic "shields" (lowered) the magnetic field through it but really generates an opposite magnetic field that not only covered the space through it else modify the surronding space like a normal magnet.

 

[Arsonade]

The universe is in itself a perpetual motion machine, I'll bet with many more undiscovered ways of tapping into it's energy and manipulating it.

Exactly, PMMs are all around us; the Water cycle, the CO2/ Oxygen cycle, the Nitrogen cycle, all cycles that should go on as long as the Earth exists.

I know about the magnet things, they really arent that important, it would just act in making the building of it easyer, also, some people i have talked to have givin me the idea that it would make my PMM run more efficiently, so ill use what i have. (whitch at the moment is nothing lol)

Adam

 

[Arsonade]

reply to vern on other post (its linked to here);

Ok; let me guess.

We take an electric motor, connect it to an electrical generator, connect the output of the generator to a step-up voltage transformer with a low voltage tap connected to the motor. The low voltage tap is designed to be the correct voltage for the motor. Then we take the high voltage output of the step-up transformer and power the world with it.

This one comes from folks who learn a little something about voltage transformers but don't understand how power works. It is very common; there's even a patent on it; it doesn't work, of course.

Vern

lol dude i didnt even know what a step-up voltage transformer was untuil you just mentioned it, why doesn't it work? can electricity not be divided that way or somthing, but anyway no that's not it, not close even, hav u red the post?

Adam