Aerospace undergrad @Purdue -- How do I get a job in Canada?

[ivonne Heapy]

HI, I am in my third year at Purdue University. Born Canadian but raised in the US. I wanted to get a job in Canada but don't know where to start...anyone have any suggestions? Do I just start sending a mass email to all companies and hope it ends up in front of the right person?

 

[scottdave]

Does Purdue have some sort of career center to help you with job search? Are you a Canadian citizen? I've heard that helps. (Or that not being a Canadian citizen makes it difficult)

 

[ivonne Heapy]

Yes - born Canadian. The career center hasn't been much help since there focus is US based companies including NASA. I have been approached by them but I can never get the level of clearance required because of the lack of US citizenship. And when I reach out to Canadian companies they prefer to deal with Canadian school recruitment events (which I dont' have access to). I am planning to reach out to the Canadian Air Force.

 

[scottdave]

Okay. That gives some perspective. How about your alumni association - see if there are any local chapters operating in Canada. Maybe you can connect with some people through LinkedIn. I'm just kicking some ideas around.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Aerospace grads are often surprised by the supply and demand of their job markets. Everyone wants aerospace jobs, and you end up competing with a bunch of high quality mechanical engineering and physics grads also.

How do you get a job?

Be competitive. Is your GPA competitive? Your experience? Research? Internships?

Or did you think an engineering degree from Purdue was enough?

 

[ivonne Heapy]

Aerospace grads are often surprised by the supply and demand of their job markets. Everyone wants aerospace jobs, and you end up competing with a bunch of high quality mechanical engineering and physics grads also.

How do you get a job?

Be competitive. Is your GPA competitive? Your experience? Research? Internships?

Or did you think an engineering degree from Purdue was enough?

WELL...that's exactly what I am trying to find an internship. Can't get one in the US without citizenship...and Canadian companies seek out Cdn university students only...do you get my dilemma?!
Of course I didn't expect it would be enough...who would think that? In an competitive field you have to always expand and diversify. Just trying to figure out if anyone else has encountered a similar dilemma.

 

[ivonne Heapy]

Okay. That gives some perspective. How about your alumni association - see if there are any local chapters operating in Canada. Maybe you can connect with some people through LinkedIn. I'm just kicking some ideas around.

Thanks! I like that idea. I will seek out alumni :)

 

[Dr. Courtney]

WELL...that's exactly what I am trying to find an internship. Can't get one in the US without citizenship...

I see, you insist on getting paid. The barrier in the US is not doing work or research for a prof or a company, it's being a paid employee. Be willing to work for free, and if you really are qualified, you will have more opportunities. The distinction between being paid or not is not as important when it comes to listing your work or research experience and having a mentor/supervisor who can provide recommendations.

Sure, there are some jobs that will still require you to be a US citizen for security reasons or other bureaucratic issues, but there are a lot that won't. I'd start with the Purdue faculty.

 

[ivonne Heapy]

I see, you insist on getting paid. The barrier in the US is not doing work or research for a prof or a company, it's being a paid employee. Be willing to work for free, and if you really are qualified, you will have more opportunities. The distinction between being paid or not is not as important when it comes to listing your work or research experience and having a mentor/supervisor who can provide recommendations.

Sure, there are some jobs that will still require you to be a US citizen for security reasons or other bureaucratic issues, but there are a lot that won't. I'd start with the Purdue faculty.

Sorry I don't think you understand...it has nothing to do about "paid". But if you insist on your erroneous perception on what I am trying to get information on...that so be it.
Do you have any experience in the aerospace engineering field? Or how students acquire experience in this area? That' really what I am looking for..

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Sorry I don't think you understand...it has nothing to do about "paid". But if you insist on your erroneous perception on what I am trying to get information on...that so be it.
Do you have any experience in the aerospace engineering field? Or how students acquire experience in this area? That' really what I am looking for..

How many faculty members have you offered to work for without pay? How many companies have you contacted offering to work without pay?

Then how do you know it has nothing to do with getting paid? In the US, researchers and companies need to jump through lots of bureaucratic hoops to pay students who are not US citizens. It's much easier for faculty and small companies to provide you with research and work experience if you are willing to work without getting paid. Once you communicate that clearly, it comes down to getting a good resume in front of the people who can directly provide you with the opportunities. If you are good, odds are you won't have to look much beyond the faculty at your institution. Most of them have active research programs and are always on the lookout for free talent.

I was a faculty member at the United States Air Force Academy. I was intimately involved in student research in a number of areas, including aerospace engineering. I've also mentored dozens of students gaining experience in engineering fields, both working directly for me and for others. I've also had a consulting business since 2001. Pure aero? Not really. But lots of stuff that is interdisciplinary between aero, mechanical, and physics.

 

[FactChecker]

WELL...that's exactly what I am trying to find an internship. Can't get one in the US without citizenship...and Canadian companies seek out Cdn university students only.

I can't believe that they would really frown on a Purdue graduate. Is it just that they only send recruiters to Canadian schools? If so, the recruiters would probably look at your resume if you sent it to them. Most companies have employment contacts that you can use.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I can't believe that they would really frown on a Purdue graduate. Is it just that they only send recruiters to Canadian schools? If so, the recruiters would probably look at your resume if you sent it to them. Most companies have employment contacts that you can use.

It's not so much that Canadian employers or recruiters would frown on a Purdue graduate, but more to do with the fact that they already have established relationships with Canadian universities and their associated engineering departments. It's worth noting that the Canadian aerospace industry is much smaller and more insular than the US counterpart, with the bulk of the work based in the province of Quebec, and Quebec employers generally from what I observed are especially parochial in their recruitment strategies (in part due to the language situation -- Quebec being a majority French-speaking province).

To @ivonne Heapy :

My advice would be to go online (e.g. LinkedIn) and seek a list of specific Canadian aerospace or related companies you are interested in working for and networking with managers or employees there (Bombardier is the biggest name I can think of). I would even suggest sending out resumes cold with your resume, highlighting the fact that you are a Canadian citizen. If you are able, consider taking a trip back to Canada and attend conferences being hosted there and meet people face to face.

BTW, if you are bilingual in French, I would definitely emphasize that on your resume (since that is a skill looked upon very highly by employers in general, and especially those based in Quebec, where I suspect many of the aerospace jobs are located).

I should also add that not all aerospace engineering jobs or internships in the US will require a security clearance, so you shouldn't rule out seeking applications there as well. I'm assuming you are studying at Purdue under a student visa, but at the same time, American companies frequently hire Canadian students (whether those from Canadian universities or those who are studying in the US).

 

[StatGuy2000]

How many faculty members have you offered to work for without pay? How many companies have you contacted offering to work without pay?

Then how do you know it has nothing to do with getting paid? In the US, researchers and companies need to jump through lots of bureaucratic hoops to pay students who are not US citizens. It's much easier for faculty and small companies to provide you with research and work experience if you are willing to work without getting paid. Once you communicate that clearly, it comes down to getting a good resume in front of the people who can directly provide you with the opportunities. If you are good, odds are you won't have to look much beyond the faculty at your institution. Most of them have active research programs and are always on the lookout for free talent.

I was a faculty member at the United States Air Force Academy. I was intimately involved in student research in a number of areas, including aerospace engineering. I've also mentored dozens of students gaining experience in engineering fields, both working directly for me and for others. I've also had a consulting business since 2001. Pure aero? Not really. But lots of stuff that is interdisciplinary between aero, mechanical, and physics.

I find it disheartening that you are recommending the OP to seek an unpaid position. Frankly I see this is an act of exploitation on the part of the employer on students.

I should note that in the province of Ontario in Canada, everyone is employed by an employer are subject the Employment Standards Act, which guarantees at least minimum wage. The only exceptions are those individuals who perform work under specific programs approved by community college or university or a registered private college. These specific programs, I should mention, are geared as part of the education process, and not just any summer job for students -- think co-op programs or formal internship programs (I should mention that the majority of these co-op or internship programs are in fact paid, especially for STEM programs).

https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/internships.php

 

[gmax137]

I am confused a little, are you looking for an internship between junior / senior years, or a job after you graduate?

Bombardier

Once the thread turned towards internships that's what I was thinking; maybe you can get an internship at a Bombardier location here in the US? And then morph that into a full time job in Canada once you graduate.

 

[FactChecker]

It's not so much that Canadian employers or recruiters would frown on a Purdue graduate, but more to do with the fact that they have already have established relationships with Canadian universities and their associated engineering departments. It's worth noting that the Canadian aerospace industry is much smaller and more insular than the US counterpart, with the bulk of the work based in the province of Quebec, and Quebec employers generally from what I observed are especially parochial in their recruitment strategies (in part due to the language situation -- Quebec being a majority French-speaking province).

Very good points to consider.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I find it disheartening that you are recommending the OP to seek an unpaid position. Frankly I see this is an act of exploitation on the part of the employer on students.

I have collaborations with lots of colleagues in which research is produced without the exchange of funds. Many of these are with me mentoring the research of students, in other cases, they are collaborations with more established colleagues. Many of these collaborative relationships with students begin when we connect with the idea that I can help them with a science research project (either to fulfill course requirements or to compete in a science fair, or both). My usual practice is that I will neither charge students for this service nor pay them for working together on research projects unless the work is pursuant to something my small consulting company is getting paid to do, in which case everyone on the project is usually compensated.

But keeping the colleagues (including students) unpaid on unfunded "side" projects gives me great freedom in many ways:
1. I can work with students regardless of their citizenship or residence status.
2. I can collaborate with students on projects of most interest to them, not just paid projects which tend to be less interesting to many students.
3. Bureaucracy and paperwork are greatly streamlined.
4. I can work with students under 18 on a variety of weapons-related projects that would not be allowed otherwise by child labor laws.

If you look at my research history with student collaborators, you'd be hard pressed to find any exploitation, even though the vast majority were unpaid. A few cases in point:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1811/1811.05797.pdf

The above paper was an unfunded side project with two college students. Neither was paid in money, but all parties felt that the value of the publication on their CVs and ability for me to provide letters of recommendation was more than worth the effort. Exploitation? Hardly.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1508/1508.05843.pdf

Another unfunded side project. This one came about when a senior physics major at a CA University contacted me regarding research opportunities for her senior thesis, because she was unsatisfied with the opportunities available in her home department. I never actually met her in person, but she did very good work both earning a good grade on the academic project and my favorable recommendations for grad school and employment. Correspondence and collaboration was via internet and phone.

https://www.mdpi.com/2306-5729/2/3/31

Yet another unfunded side project. I met the first author right here on PF. He was a high school junior needing a project for his local science fairs and to strengthen his position for college. He really was the best student I've ever worked with, even though I've never met him in person either. I did invite him to my lab in Lake Charles, but he was less interested in our blast and ballistics work. Together with his other achievements, his work with me and my recommendation paved the way to research opportunities very early in his undergraduate career. He was the freshman physics major all the faculty at an R1 institution were drooling over to have in their labs. Other students I've mentored have had similar outcomes.

Yes, in a perfect world, all students involved in research would get paid. But the outcome of that would me far fewer research opportunities for students. From a practical viewpoint, I want students I advise or mentor to have ample research opportunities in their college years, and I strongly recommend that all of them value the opportunities for scientific growth, publications, and favorable recommendations much more highly than $7-$10 /hr. The sum of all the potential hourly wages is worth far less than the growth, accomplishments, and recommendations at the next step. None feel exploited, nor have I every felt exploited by a research collaboration for which I was not paid.

My ability to mentor student research would be reduced by 95+% if I had to pay them and meet all the silly bureaucratic requirements of an employer. Additionally, several of the students I mentor who have paid campus jobs are limited by a stupid bureaucratic mandate (related to Obamacare) limiting work hours to 19 per week. The ebbs and flows of campus life often make students more available for research over breaks, and yet there is that stupid 19 hour limit. Similarly, some students have jobs as resident assistants that max out the 19 hours per week they get paid by the university. Their university will simply not allow any lab on campus to pay them for additional hours. Likewise, I've also mentored research with NCAA athletes. Between the NCAA and the school athletic departments, there are strict rules limiting campus employment for these athletes, but collaborations are unrestricted if they are not paid.

The false dichotomy between payment and exploitation will only work against the goal of students having ample research experience when they graduate. It's hard enough finding resources and jumping though the other bureaucratic hoops to make these projects work. Demanding payment would simply close lots of doors better left open.

See: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-love-money/

 

[clope023]

I see, you insist on getting paid.

This is very reasonable expectation provided the OP has graduated already.

If the OP is still an undergrad, than yes cutting one's teeth with unpaid work is a good way to eventually earn paid work.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

HI, I am in my third year at Purdue University. Born Canadian but raised in the US. I wanted to get a job in Canada but don't know where to start...anyone have any suggestions? Do I just start sending a mass email to all companies and hope it ends up in front of the right person?

This is very reasonable expectation provided the OP has graduated already.

If the OP is still an undergrad, than yes cutting one's teeth with unpaid work is a good way to eventually earn paid work.

I don't think this one has graduated yet. Even if he had, I usually like to see a full resume before I conclude paid employment is a reasonable expectation.