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America's shame

  1. Dec 10, 2006 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/07/60minutes/main2238188.shtml

    The people of Darby's town should cheer him as a hero. Engelbach and those who would persecute Darby are as bad as those who tortured prisoners. They are America's worst. They are America's shame. Darby is a hero.

    One must wonder why Rummy made Darby's name public; as does Darby. Perhaps Darby should sue Rummy for helping to ruin his former life?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2006
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  3. Dec 10, 2006 #2

    turbo

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    What has been done to Darby and his wife is shameful. My cousin's daughter was a Lt in the guard who did not get deployed due to a pregnancy. It turns out that her unit replaced Darby's at the prison, and then had to defend themselves against perceptions that they had done similar things to the prisoners, once the photos hit the press. :mad:
     
  4. Dec 10, 2006 #3
    I just don't understand the mentality of people like Englebach. It was not Darby who put our soldiers more in harms way by exposing the crimes of Abu Ghraib, it was the perpetrators themselves.
     
  5. Dec 10, 2006 #4

    Ivan Seeking

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    They are militant nut-jobs masquerading as patriots - little dictators wrapped in a flag.
     
  6. Dec 11, 2006 #5

    BobG

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    He didn't get as negative a reaction from members of his unit.

    "It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be" doesn't exactly suggest unanimous support. I imagine the reaction of members of his unit were probably pretty mixed. I would hope the majority would find the actions at Abu Graib pretty disgusting, but I'm sure there were some that found turning in his fellow soldiers very upsetting. It is a Reserve unit, after all, and they're from the Cumberland area in addition to being military members.

    Cumberland and its surrounding area isn't a particularly progressive area. It's one of the towns left behind. It was built on the strength of the Cumberland Gap providing a main transportation thoroughfare between the East Coast and the Old Northwest (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc). Most of its industries have relocated over the last 25 years as they've built more modern factories elsewhere. It's population has declined from nearly 40,000 to just over 20,000. They have a disproportionate number of people who stay because they don't have the intellectual or economic resources to move somewhere better. They have an older median age, a lower median income, a lower percentage of high school graduates, and a much lower percentage of college graduates. It doesn't surprise me the 'typical' Cumberland resident would despise Darby more than the soldiers in his unit.
     
  7. Dec 11, 2006 #6

    verty

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    "But do you put the enemy above your buddies? I wouldn’t"

    If that doesn't scare you, nothing will.
     
  8. Dec 13, 2006 #7
    I don't think they should have kept it secret, he should still be a hero for reporting the truth but if the people we are fighting have no code of conduct, they don't deserve any special treatment, and everyone should know the truth about war it's educational.
     
  9. Dec 13, 2006 #8

    verty

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    Do you think refraining from torture is 'special treatment'?
     
  10. Dec 13, 2006 #9
    bwahahaha, little dictators wrapped in a flag - that's priceless.


    I believe most on here have hit it on the nose, darby is a hero for exposing the behavior of his comrades.

    Such behavior (the torture, not the whistleblowing) only serves as a propaganda piece for our enemies, and in the words of the noble and wise sage (sarcasm), sean hannity, will embolden them.

    I do not believe, however, that these individuals should face penalties for their actions, beyond being removed from the military. What they did is atrocious, for certain, but given the circumstances they are in I do not consider their actions to be criminal. Given the same set of circumstances, I think that anyone here could possibly do the same thing.
     
  11. Dec 13, 2006 #10

    BobG

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    What situation? They were guards in a prison.

    I'd agree at least to a certain extent (at least when talking about the severity of punishment) if we were talking about actions committed by soldiers in the field when under stress. It takes something extremely brutal to qualify as a war crime in the middle of a battle.

    Being a guard in a prison in Iraq has some stress, but I don't think it would be comparable to the stress of the folks on patrol. Graner was a sick individual and was lucky to get off with only 10 years.
     
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