At how much of a disadvantage with women is a 5'8 guy?

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The discussion centers on the perceived disadvantages a 5'8" man may face in dating, particularly regarding height and attractiveness to women. Participants acknowledge that while some women prefer taller men, many successful relationships exist between partners of varying heights. Confidence emerges as a crucial factor; a lack of self-assurance related to height can hinder a man's dating prospects more than height itself. Studies referenced indicate that taller men may have certain advantages, but individual traits like charisma, kindness, and confidence are often more significant in attracting partners. The conversation also touches on societal perceptions of height, with some arguing that height should not be a major concern, as personal qualities and social skills play a more vital role in dating success. Overall, the consensus suggests that while height preferences exist, they are not absolute, and many women prioritize other attributes over height.
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At how much of a disadvantage with women is a 5'8" guy?

Five-eighter here. I realize I don't have a physical presence that signals dominance.
 
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None, IMO.
 


Evo said:
None, IMO.

C'mon ...
 


I know men who are 5'8'' or shorter that have plenty of success with women. I know men who are taller than that who have nearly none. (and certainly the other way around!)

I think a lack of confidence due to anything (one's height, for example) can CERTAINLY hinder a man's chances with a woman.

Are there women who look specifically for a man who is quite tall? One can only imagine there are, just as there are men who look for specific physical attributes in a woman.

I would not worry about it.
 


Tom Cruise is 5'7". You would rank in the upper half of this list of Hollywood actors under 6'.

www.floatingpath.com/2012/12/19/hollywood-actors-short/

(Click on image to enlarge).
 
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Personally I think that being self assured, relaxed, assertive, and showing initiative are more important.

But here's what I found after a short google search:
of the 720 couples in their study, only one was comprised of a taller woman and a shorter man (Gillis & Avis, 1980).taller men were more likely to have at least one biological child compared to shorter men (Pawlowski, Dunbar, & Lipowicz, 2000).women with more “traditional” gender role expectations were less willing to date shorter men (Salska, et al., 2008).
http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/dating/why-do-women-all-seem-to-want-taller-men/
 
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isn't 5'8''-5'9'' the average male height?
Anyway real men show their physical dominance by growling ferociously and by showing their fangs. Works like a charm.
 
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I don't know much about these things so I asked my wife. I'm sorry to say there's not much hope for you. According to her, 5'6" is the only good male height.
 


The fact that you're concerned about your height is what will put you at a disadvantage, not your height.
 
  • #10


Jamin2112 said:
Five-eighter here. I realize I don't have a physical presence that signals dominance.
'Don't know what you mean by "dominance" in this context, but 5'8" is nothing out of the ordinary. Plenty of historical heroes, villains, saviors, and even megalomaniacs have been roughly 5'8" (give or take a bit).
Evo said:
None, IMO.
Wow.
 
  • #11
Jamin2112 said:
C'mon ...
I'm 5'7 and I've had several girls/women tell me its a disadvantage.
 
  • #12


Evo said:
None, IMO.

:smile::smile: love it
 
  • #13
ZombieFeynman said:
I think a lack of confidence due to anything (one's height, for example) can CERTAINLY hinder a man's chances with a woman.
I think this is soo true
ZombieFeynman said:
Are there women who look specifically for a man who is quite tall? One can only imagine there are,
Yep...one here. Although I don't really look for men :-/ Tall guys get my attention quicker than short ones and I am also quite short.
I like Serena said:
Personally I think that being self assured, relaxed, assertive, and showing initiative are more important.

But here's what I found after a short google search:

http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/dating/why-do-women-all-seem-to-want-taller-men/
Yes but this is true. I usually like tall guys and I once really liked this guy who was only 5'6". He was moderately confident, very funny, and extremely good at writing. His poetry was awesome. I only found out about his shortness complex when he discovered I started to date a guy who is 6'4".

Jamin, I don't think being 5'8" would really be a problem for you...the dominance thing might be with some women. I don't know many women who look for dominance in a man as much as self assurance, self sufficiency, and kindness.
 
  • #14


You have to look at multiple things not just height.. like weight, face symmetry and so on :-p
 
  • #15


The tallest average height for a female world wide is in The Netherlands and is 5' 6.4, the average male in Canada or France is 5' 8.5. Why would you feel you're at a disadvantage for your height of 5' 8?
 
  • #16


collinsmark said:
'Don't know what you mean by "dominance" in this context

Well you always hear that taller men are more sexually attractive because evolutionary psychology holds that blah blah blah. (Which doesn't make sense. If women were really going after the genetically "fittest" on earth, then in this day and age they'd be going after guys with a high IQ, that is, nerds.)
 
  • #17


Monique said:
The tallest average height for a female world wide is in The Netherlands and is 5' 6.4, the average male in Canada or France is 5' 8.5. Why would you feel you're at a disadvantage for your height of 5' 8?

I don't live in France or Canada. I live in the United States where the average male height is 5'9.5". Keep in mind also that it's a normal curve, so 5'8" is like bottom 30% and if were to control for White males (since Asians and Mexicans heavily skew the average lower), it's more like bottom 20%.
 
  • #18


Ok, but then still only 10% of women in the United States are taller than you:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0209.pdf
 
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  • #19


Monique said:
Ok, but then still only 10% of women in the United States are taller than you:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0209.pdf

But they want a guy who's at least a few inches taller than they are. So I'd say my range is ≤5'3", which is the bottom 30.4%.
 
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  • #20


Just make a joke about how instead of growing taller, you had extra growth below your waistline. Then you're in for sure.
 
  • #21


daveyrocket said:
Just make a joke about how instead of growing taller, you had extra growth below your waistline. Then you're in for sure.

not-bad-obama-625x625.png
 
  • #22


Jamin2112 said:
So I'd say my range is ≤5'3", which is the bottom 30.4%.
I'd say you just lost that demographic too.
 
  • #23


Jamin2112 said:
But they want a guy who's at least a few inches taller than they are.
Really, you think that's what women want?
 
  • #24


I still think this is a silly thing to worry about.

But if you're really concerned about the whole looking dominant thing, I'm afraid adding a few inches to your height is probably out of the cards. Adding another few inches to your biceps/chest/shoulders on the other hand is probably in the range of possibilities...
 
  • #25


Jamin2112 said:
Five-eighter here. I realize I don't have a physical presence that signals dominance.
That statement seems to reflect an insecurity or lack of confidence. I'm about the same height, and it has never been a disadvantage, nor was I ever concerned about 'dominance'. I dated girls/women of varying heights, some shorter, some about the same height or slightly taller. No problems.
 
  • #26


Monique said:
Really, you think that's what women want?

Yes. There was a study that showed most women would rather date a guy who has been to prison than a guy who is less than 2 inches taller than them.
 
  • #27


ZombieFeynman said:
But if you're really concerned about the whole looking dominant thing, I'm afraid adding a few inches to your height is probably out of the cards. Adding another few inches to your biceps/chest/shoulders on the other hand is probably in the range of possibilities...

You guys are clueless. If you're short and look like you lift weights obsessively, then you're viewed as trying to compensate for lack of height.
 
  • #28


Jamin2112, you're a blessing to other guys! With your strong instinct for psychological self-sabotage any other reasonably confident guy will seem preferable.
 
  • #29


Jamin2112 said:
You guys are clueless. If you're short and look like you lift weights obsessively, then you're viewed as trying to compensate for lack of height.

Or concerned about your health and physical well-being :confused:

I don't understand.

Some Women here have said it didn't matter to them personally.

Men have shared either observations about other men of similar height and/or their own stories of being similar height.

People have offered other suggestions.

You insist on a pity party.

You essentially cannot change your height. You must face this fact. It's truly not the end of the world.

Further anecdote:
A close friend of mine is around your height. I've seen him have successful long term relationships with women his height and taller. He's now engaged to a lovely young woman who's tiny compared to him. It doesn't matter what size he was or they were. He's a charismatic guy. He's a good guy. Good people wouldn't care whether he was five foot, five foot eight, or six feet eight. They'd see him as just an awesome fella.
 
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  • #30


ZombieFeynman said:
Women here have said it didn't matter to them personally.

Hmm, that's not what I got from this.
It's only Evo and Monique who said they did not care.
I suspect they are not representative.
And now I'm curious whether the father of Evo's children wasn't about 4 inches taller...
 
  • #31


I like Serena said:
Hmm, that's not what I got from this.
It's only Evo and Monique who said they did not care.
I suspect they are not representative.
And now I'm curious whether the father of Evo's children wasn't about 4 inches taller...

Fair enough. My post has been edited to reflect this.
 
  • #32


Oh, and Monique, with her average of 5'6.4" for females in the Netherlands (I found 5'7" from wiki), did not mention that the males are 6'0" on average.
These are apparently the males these women select.
 
  • #33


I think the main issue with Jamin2112 is that he is not going to places where there are woman. I have the same problem, being in a science related field there are WAY less woman than many other fields. And it gets worse, once you have a job the number of people you interact with daily drop to ~20 and its the same people day in, day out making it really hard to find a good match for yourself. And this spirals in making someones selfconfidence fall. Dating sites don't even work, especially for any age less then 25. Because I feel like a lonely single man (been single for more than a few years), my confidence is reduced, and knowing that woman want a more confident guy, my confidence goes even more down. Even though I have a good job, and various other aspects of my life are great.
 
  • #34


I like Serena said:
Oh, and Monique, with her average of 5'6.4" for females in the Netherlands (I found 5'7" from wiki), did not mention that the males are 6'0" on average.
These are apparently the males these women select.

I'm still not certain of your point. You quote the average heights of men and women in a specific country.

No offence, but...so what?
 
  • #35


If you look hard enough, you're going to find every guy has some sort of disadvantage with women. Get over it. I know that's hard to do, because for us sciencey-mathy types, we grow up getting rewards for pointing out where other people are wrong. But it doesn't work that way with women (or much of life). Women can be very forgiving about a man's disadvantages, if she likes what advantages he has. If women were as critical as you are, the human race would have died out long ago.

5'8" is not that short anyway. There are plenty of attractive women who are between 5'0" and 5'4". Don't focus so much on statistics, especially statistics that just deal in averages and say nothing about distributions. They can be very misleading. I've been hit on by women who were 2-3" taller than me.

Jamin2112 said:
Yes. There was a study that showed most women would rather date a guy who has been to prison than a guy who is less than 2 inches taller than them.

That doesn't say much. A lot of women don't have anything against dating a guy who's been to prison.

Jamin2112 said:
You guys are clueless. If you're short and look like you lift weights obsessively, then you're viewed as trying to compensate for lack of height.

No, most women won't see it that way. Women would think "he's short, but ooh, look at those muscles!" Building muscle takes a lot of work, and people (women included) appreciate that.

Solute said:
I think the main issue with Jamin2112 is that he is not going to places where there are woman. I have the same problem, being in a science related field there are WAY less woman than many other fields. And it gets worse, once you have a job the number of people you interact with daily drop to ~20 and its the same people day in, day out making it really hard to find a good much for yourself. And this spirals in making someones selfconfidence fall. Dating sites don't even work, especially for any age less then 25. Because I feel like a lonely single man (been single for more than a few years), my confidence is reduced, and knowing that woman want a more confident guy, my confidence goes even more down. Even though I have a good job, and various other aspects of my life are great.

Dating sites can work. I've met several women from dating sites, including my girlfriend. But they are not stacked in favor of men. But then neither is dating in general. Try this experiment some time.. make a profile of a hot girl and see how many and what quality of emails she gets. It's enlightening, and it gives you an idea of what you need to do to distinguish yourself from the riffraff.

You need to get out and do something social that women also like to do. Personally, I'm a big advocate of taking some sort of dance lessons to meet women. Men have a numbers advantage there, and most women go to those sorts of things specifically to meet men. You don't even have to be good at it, just being willing to try is enough for some women.

Meeting people doesn't just happen. You *have* to make an effort.
 
  • #36


ZombieFeynman said:
I'm still not certain of your point. You quote the average heights of men and women in a specific country.

No offence, but...so what?

Because the average height of men is higher than the average height of women! Therefore, all men are taller than all women! And the average women prefers a man who is four inches taller than she is! Therefore, all women have a completely uncompromising preference for men that are four inches taller!
 
  • #37


daveyrocket said:
Because the average height of men is higher than the average height of women! Therefore, all men are taller than all women! And the average women prefers a man who is four inches taller than she is! Therefore, all women have a completely uncompromising preference for men that are four inches taller!

Yep. That's what I wanted to say. ;)
 
  • #38


Women on average want a man that is two years older than she is. That's why an older women, like Demi Moore, would never date a younger man such as... just to pull a totally random name out of a hat... Ashton Kutcher.
 
  • #39


daveyrocket said:
A lot of women don't have anything against dating a guy who's been to prison.
I'd have to say that Jamin's memory is wrong or the survey was in jest, I believe the vast majority of women would not want to date an ex-con. Of course social and educational status of a woman would most likely influence this. If you live in a low income/high crime area, you may not have much of a choice.

No, most women won't see it that way. Women would think "he's short, but ooh, look at those muscles!" Building muscle takes a lot of work, and people (women included) appreciate that.
Again, maybe it's my social circle, and my girl's social circles, regardless of the part of the country I've lived in, but I rarely meet women that are into muscular men, being fit is fine, but men that "bulk out" are considered less attractive, and a man that spends a lot of time on "building muscles" is a negative. Of course this is my experience, perhaps it's odd that the majority of women I've met during my life also feel this way, and I admit I've known women that get into big muscles, but they're the minority, IMO. My advice is if it's not something that you *really* want, don't do it to try to "impress" women, you could end up turning off the type of woman you want.
 
  • #40


It's all about confidence. Let me give you an example of what confidence looks like.

I was on my way to my second date with a guy - the first date was just a nice-to-meet you, no kissy-kissy or anything like that. So he called saying that he would be about 5 minutes late. No problem, I said, I'll get a table for us.

So I got a table next to the wall. One seat was a normal chair, the other was a bench seat connected to the wall. I sat on the bench seat so I could see when he came in.

He comes in about 5 minutes late, comes over to the table, walks right by "his" chair and slides onto the bench next to me. Close. Close enough that our thighs are touching! As if it's the most normal thing in the world, not the slightest bit of embarrassment or self-consciousness. Smiling big. "Hi, sorry I'm a bit late! Have you been here long?"

That's confidence. Would it have mattered if he was bald-short-limping-whatever? Nope.
 
  • #41


lisab said:
He comes in about 5 minutes late, comes over to the table, walks right by "his" chair and slides onto the bench next to me. Close. Close enough that our thighs are touching! As if it's the most normal thing in the world, not the slightest bit of embarrassment or self-consciousness. Smiling big. "Hi, sorry I'm a bit late! Have you been here long?"

You just met the guy for the first time. You don't find that creepy?
 
  • #42


Solute said:
You just met the guy for the first time.

On the second date? If so, the first date must have been the Most Boring Date Ever.
 
  • #43


daveyrocket said:
No, most women won't see it that way. Women would think "he's short, but ooh, look at those muscles!" Building muscle takes a lot of work, and people (women included) appreciate that.

I don't lol. I would prefer a short skinny or chubby guy to a short muscular one.

Evo said:
I'd have to say that Jamin's memory is wrong or the survey was in jest, I believe the vast majority of women would not want to date an ex-con. Of course social and educational status of a woman would most likely influence this. If you live in a low income/high crime area, you may not have much of a choice.

Again, maybe it's my social circle, and my girl's social circles, regardless of the part of the country I've lived in, but I rarely meet women that are into muscular men, being fit is fine, but men that "bulk out" are considered less attractive, and a man that spends a lot of time on "building muscles" is a negative. Of course this is my experience, perhaps it's odd that the majority of women I've met during my life also feel this way, and I admit I've known women that get into big muscles, but they're the minority, IMO. My advice is if it's not something that you *really* want, don't do it to try to "impress" women, you could end up turning off the type of woman you want.
This has also been my experience. I do have one friend who prefers guys who are a little bulked out, and generally we do take muscle building as a negative. But again these are all physical things, they may be what attracts you to a guy but not what will keep you with them or make you serious about them.
 
  • #44


Vanadium 50 said:
On the second date? If so, the first date must have been the Most Boring Date Ever.

Never mind I missed the part where you said it was second date.
 
  • #45


I've known more than a few girls (I say girls because I'm 20) who explicitly stated that they wouldn't date anyone who was not taller than they were. Granted, one could respond that 1. at that age nobody knows what they want anyway, or 2. maybe they just haven't met a good enough small guy yet. But I think it's disingenuous to imply that no such disadvantage exists.

(FWIW I'm a 5'2" guy. Life goes on.)
 
  • #46


Hi, 20-year-old single guy here. How exactly do you expect to change your height, Mr. OP? And if you can't change it, why on Earth are you worrying about it? Sounds kinda stupid if you ask me. Wouldn't it be better to worry about things you CAN change, rather than worry about things you can't?

But hey, that's just logic speakin' to me.
 
  • #48


Char. Limit said:
Wouldn't it be better to worry about things you CAN change, rather than worry about things you can't?

But hey, that's just logic speakin' to me.
It's also serenity isn't it? How does that AA thing go?
 
  • #49


5'8" in MY opinion is NOT short enough to garner any pity. When meeting women you just have to avoid obvious stupid situations, i.e. Don't go out trying to find girls with your 4 tallest friends.

If a woman is 5'3" and you're 5'8" in a room of 5'10" guys, I don't think you're at ANY disadvantage. But if you're 5'2" in a room of 5'5" guys, you're going to have a bad time.

Everything in this post may sound sexist, and I am in no way saying the following is GENERALLY true, but rather GENERALLY observed by myself. There are always exceptions.

I've tended to notice that women are more of a checklist/pass/fail when first meeting you. (And having talked to a few of my friends/curent SO about it). If you have a characteristic that they don't like, it seems to me that they have a harder time getting past it (again, not saying it never happens).

Guys on the other hand have more of a cumulative scoring test. There are things that, on first appearance, we dislike, but if the general total is passable, we're attracted.

Neither of these are bad in any way.
The women I meet tend to "obsess" more (in a non-offensive way). Almost like their brain will keep nagging them about something that's bothering them (is he too short?), and it gets hard for them to look past it (he's almost shorter than me); consequently becoming quite a distraction (what did he just say?). This distraction can lead to a general negative impact, leading her away from him, thus making her appear shallow in the "picky" sense.

Guys on the other hand let SMALL things go much faster (to a fault to be honest) and end up seeming to lack either opinion (I really just don't care if your dress makes you look fat), emotion (You're friend's dog died? a damn shame but it happens, can we watch the move now?) or conviction (I'd love to get sushi for dinner. Oh you want pizza? Thats fine then too.) , leading to us seeming shallow in the "not picky" sense.

So while all these generalizations are great and all, they ONLY APPLY TO THE FIRST 5 SECONDS OF MEETING SOMEONE. As soon as the words "Hi/Hello" are uttered, all bets are off and its up to YOU to make a connection. Sure, a little more work might be required, but that's part of the fun.

So in the end, I'd say SHORT guys (defined as less than the average FEMALE height) and TALL women (defined as greater than the average MALE height) get screwed. (or don't rather).
 
  • #50


Hepth said:
SHORT guys (defined as less than the average FEMALE height)

Eh? Average female height in the U.S. is 5'4". You're saying that guys 5'5"-5'8" shouldn't be considered short?
 

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