Breaking Down the 2016 POTUS Race Contenders & Issues

[jim hardy]

I agree. He's very trying

Fair Anne agrees with both of you. ..

 

[jim hardy]

re Astronuc's link

“ Trump’s incendiary rhetoric is undercutting what could be an effective critique of the Obama administration’s record on terror...
“That is a legitimate criticism,” Boot continued. “What Trump is saying is not a legitimate criticism. What he is saying is just plain nuts.”

Boot is right on with his " He has left a vacuum of power that has allowed ISIS... to flourish."
so as Boot told Ms Couric , Trump has a grain of truth behind his hyperbole but he missed the mark
I highly recommend this eye opening PBS Frontline
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-secret-history-of-isis/
which shows it would be more correct to credit Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney with sprouting Isis and Obama/Hillary with nurturing it.

Memo to Trump: Quit trying to be a comedian. If you want good political parody hire Jon Stewart. You just can't compete.

old jim

 

[Astronuc]

With Bernie Sanders Out, Young Adults See Third-Party Appeal (POLL)
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/bernie-busted-young-adults-see-third-party-appeal-150505312--abc-news-topstories.html

Many young voters, like many older voters, are dissatisfied the presidential nominees from both major parties.

Just 22 percent say they’re satisfied with a choice of Clinton and Trump, with a majority “very” dissatisfied. Twice as many of those 30 and older are satisfied, 43 percent.

That dissatisfaction could influence turnout, often a concern with young adults. They account for 21 percent of all adults but just 14 percent of likely voters in the survey, produced for ABC News by http://hsrd.yahoo.com/RV=1/RE=1472265127/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5sYW5nZXJyZXNlYXJjaC5jb20A/RS=%5EADAZUkAlmBrEjU45CTvUZVNxeHInYs- .

It also encourages a look elsewhere. When Libertarian Gary Johnson and Jill Stein of the http://hsrd.yahoo.com/RV=1/RE=1472265127/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL2FiY25ld3MuZ28uY29tL3RvcGljcy9uZXdzL3VzL2dyZWVuLXBhcnR5Lmh0bQA-/RS=%5EADAU.lVB1EeVOPH1F2B4OscOXRQcJA- are included, Clinton leads Trump by 19 points among under-30s, 43-24 percent, with 16 percent supporting Johnson and 10 percent supporting Stein – their best among any age group.

So hopefully, they'll show up at the polls in November.

 

[jtbell]

I saw something astonishing (to me, at least) on the local TV news tonight. A poll gives Trump only a 2% lead in South Carolina. South Carolina?

Trump, Clinton nearly tied in new South Carolina poll (WYFF-TV, Greenville)

New poll: Clinton, Trump ‘virtually tied’ in SC (The State, Columbia)

This poll was commissioned by the state Democratic party, so Trump's people are dismissing it. But the state Republican chairman sees this as a sign that his party needs to take this race seriously. I'm skeptical myself, even though I'm a Democrat. SC has been solidly Republican in Presidential elections the whole time I've lived here. You have to go back to 1976 to find a Democrat (Carter, from neighboring Georgia) winning SC.

1976: Ford (R) 43%, Carter (D) 56%
1980: Reagan (R) 50%, Carter (D) 48%, Anderson 2%
1984: Reagan (R) 64%, Mondale (D) 36%
1988: Bush 41 (R) 62%, Dukakis (D) 38%
1992: Bush 41 (R) 48%, Clinton (D) 40%, Perot 12%
1996: Dole (R) 50%, Clinton (D) 44%, Perot 6%
2000: Bush 43 (R) 57%, Gore (D) 41%
2004: Bush 43 (R) 58%, Kerry (D) 41%
2008: McCain (R) 54%, Obama (D) 45%
2012: Romney (R) 55%, Obama (D) 44%

Also, the percentages in this poll are 41% Trump, 39% Clinton, 5% Johnson (Libertarian), 2% Stein (Green). That leaves a lot of undecided voters.

 

[mheslep]

South Carolina?

Some time ago I saw an interview of former long term Democratic US Senator from South Carolina, Fritz Hollings ('66-'05), about SC politics. IIRC, he was asked a question about how he raised money in SC. His answer was something like, "I can't raise any money in South Carolina! I have to go out to Hollywood or the like for money"

 

[mheslep]

Found the interview (Bill Moyers 2008)

...
FRITZ HOLLINGS: That’s right. We didn’t go home on the weekends. We tried to get out Thursday afternoon or night or at least early Friday morning to go to the West Coast for fundraisers. That’s why Hollywood and that’s why Wall Street has got that much influence. I’m not going to South Carolina. They got no money for a Democrat. I have to travel all over the country.
...

Hollings was proof that a democrat can be elected to national office from SC in these times, but I'd also say a GOP candidate really has to work at screwing it up to lose there.

 

[Astronuc]

Another independent candidate for president. An unusual election becomes more unusual.

There is the Libertarian and Green parties, and now Independent candidate Evan McMullin since 5 days ago.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/evan-mcmullin-donald-trump-cia-000000164.html

“There are a lot of Americans out there who are really, really struggling. They’re struggling under wage stagnation, a lack of other economic opportunities, and at the same time they don’t feel as if the government is hearing them,” he said. “That’s real. Donald Trump has tapped into that in a way that other candidates did not. What he did, though, is he took it a step further and combined that frustration with people’s darkest prejudices and deepest fears.”

“This is a guy who does not care about Americans the way you need to care about Americans in order to lead them, in order to be their president,” McMullin said. “The president of the United States should care about the struggles of Americans. He or she should care about their aspirations. This is what leadership is.”

https://www.evanmcmullin.com/
https://www.evanmcmullin.com/issues

Evan McMullin, the former chief policy director for Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives, will offer discontented members of his party an option this November by launching an independent, conservative bid for president.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/evan-mcmullin-2016-presidential-run-226784

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/09/us/politics/evan-mcmullin-independent-candidate.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37067149

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cia-...ndependent-presidential-bid/story?id=41201256

McMullin was born in Provo, Utah, and earned a bachelor’s degree in international law and diplomacy from Brigham Young University and a master’s in business administration from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.

Six things to know about independent presidential candidate Evan McMullin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pendent-presidential-candidate-evan-mcmullin/

 

[Evo]

Another independent candidate for president. An unusual election becomes more unusual.

There is the Libertarian and Green parties, and now Independent candidate Evan McMullin since 5 days ago.

He has no plans on how he's going to do anything except he's opposed to women's rights.

 

[phinds]

Just saw an article in Time magazine where the OpEd writer opined some like this: I don't think Hillary is crooked but she has such an unwavering belief in her own righteousness that she does things that are wrong but does not see them as wrong.

Personally, I think it goes beyond that because when confronted with her sins, she, like Bill, just avoids the issue and starts parsing words and splitting hairs instead of admitting any wrongdoing.

She is her own worst enemy, as Trump is his (although he takes it to a whole 'nother level).

 

[TurtleMeister]

It was claimed by Rand Paul in an interview with Fox News that Clinton's emails revealed the location of ambassador Stevens who was killed in the Benghazi attack.

Edit by Mod: Inaccurate opinion piece deleted, these are against the new Current Events rules, thank you for looking up the information.

I had not heard about this and wanted to know how true it is. According to PunditFact it is half true.

Napolitano said emails released to the public show Clinton discussed "the location of Ambassador Stevens, who of course was murdered, in Libya."

To clarify, Stevens was not the ambassador to Libya at the time, and the emails occurred about 18 months before the Benghazi attacks that killed him.

Clinton received at least six emails that discussed Stevens’ location in Libya, though the terms are vague -- for example, saying he was in Benghazi at an unidentified hotel.

The context of Napolitano’s statement gives the impression that the emails contain information that would have been damaging if released, but it was widely noted in the media at the time that Stevens was in Benghazi, and on at least one occasion, reporters encountered him at the hotel where he was living and working.

The statement is partially accurate but leaves out important details and context, so we rate it Half True.

Please note that the video link, or a similar one, was included in a previous post by mheslep, which was deleted. The interview appears to be only three days old, so I don't think it would have been the reason for deletion. However, if it was then no problem with deleting it.

 

[Evo]

Blogs are not allowed.

 

[mheslep]

Blogs are not allowed.

That's good. What does it have to do with my post?

The Hill is an American political newspaper published in Washington, D.C. since 1994.[3][4][5] It is published by Capitol Hill Publishing, which is owned by News Communications, Inc.

Focusing on politics, policy, business and international relations, The Hill coverage includesCongress, the White House and federal campaigns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hill_(newspaper)

 

[Evo]

That's good. What does it have to do with my post?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hill_(newspaper)

Look at your URL that you posted, it's their Blog section. And it's not a mainstream news source either. It's just for distribution in the Capital Hill area. Any news articles outside of their blog section would require fact checking for accuracy

 

[phinds]

Blogs are not allowed.

That's good. What does it have to do with my post?

@Evo , I think you've gotten mheslep mixed up w/ Turtlemeister, in whose post you deleted a blog reference.

@mheslep, evo's post clearly refers to the post directly above hers

 

[gleem]

I need some clarification. If a notable person posts something in a blog it is verboten? But if he says the same thing or is quoted in a newspaper or in an interview it is OK?

 

[Evo]

Evo, I think you've gotten mheslep mixed up w/ Turtlemeister, in whose post you deleted a blog reference.

No, I deleted a blog post of Mheslep that he posted just a bit ago.

 

[mheslep]

Transcript from VP Biden's remarks at Hillary Clinton Campaign Event , Scranton, PA

...He's even showered praise on Saddam Hussein, one of the most violent dictators of the 20th century, a man who repeatedly backed terror attacks against Israel because he was supposedly -- the reason he admires him -- he was a killer of terrorists, that's why he likes Saddam.

He would've loved Stalin, he would've loved Stalin. Look, this -- this says a lot about his approach that explains why he so often embraced tactics of terrorists, enemies themselves...

Politico:
"Biden on Trump: 'He would have loved Stalin' - POLITICO"
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/joe-biden-trump-stalin-227017

 

[Evo]

I need some clarification. If a notable person posts something in a blog it is verboten? But if he says the same thing or is quoted in a newspaper or in an interview it is OK?

It's been our policy for years, no blogs, no op-ed, no opinion pieces. If it becomes mainstream news, and can be proven, then it becomes acceptable. Also, remember, this is no longer politics, this is Current News Events, it has to be something that has made news headlines.

Hint: If you find something mentioned in a blog, try to find the source.

 

[TurtleMeister]

@Evo, After looking back at the video that you deleted I see that the news section that it was presented in was called the "Personal Story Section", which I guess could be construed as an opinion section, in which case I agree with your decision based on the rules.

However, I question the usefulness of the rule because it seems that posting someones opinion statements is okay as long as it's not presented in an opinion piece or section. Seems kind of silly. For example, look at the quote in this post; "He's even showered praise on Saddam Hussein...the reason he admires him -- he was a killer of terrorists, that's why he likes Saddam." This is an opinion because Trump never said that he admires or likes Hussein, at least not in the North Carolina speech that I watched. In fact he went out of his way to say what a bad guy he was.

 

[Evo]

@Evo, After looking back at the video that you deleted I see that the news section that it was presented in was called the "Personal Story Section", which I guess could be construed as an opinion section, in which case I agree with your decision based on the rules.

However, I question the usefulness of the rule because it seems that posting someones opinion statements is okay as long as it's not presented in an opinion piece or section. Seems kind of silly. For example, look at the quote in this post; "He's even showered praise on Saddam Hussein...the reason he admires him -- he was a killer of terrorists, that's why he likes Saddam." This is an opinion because Trump never said that he admires or likes Hussein, at least not in the North Carolina speech that I watched. In fact he went out of his way to say what a bad guy he was.

I deleted it once already but mheslep insisted on reposting it and found a source that was acceptable. I try to keep junk out, but I can't keep all junk out. If it was up to me, I would delete it in a heatbeat.

 

[mheslep]

...
For example, look at the quote in this post; "He's even showered praise on Saddam Hussein...the reason he admires him -- he was a killer of terrorists, that's why he likes Saddam." This is an opinion ...

That's a quote from VP Biden a couple days ago. In this case because of his position, his opinion is the news, is the current event, accurate or not.

 

[mheslep]

I deleted it once already but mheslep insisted on reposting it and found a source that was acceptable. I try to keep junk out, but I can't keep all junk out. If it was up to me, I would delete it in a heatbeat.

Transcript of the US VPs speech is junk?

 

[Evo]

Transcript of the US VPs speech is junk?

If it's junk, doesn't matter who says it. Trump needs no help in digging himself a hole and I don't approve of other's doing it for them. Don't bring yourself down to the other person's level is what I always say.

Like Michele Obama said "when they go low, we go high". That's what I want to see.

 

[TurtleMeister]

That's a quote from VP Biden a couple days ago. In this case because of his position, his opinion is the news, is the current event, accurate or not.

Of course it's not accurate. I guess accuracy is not important as long as the source is acceptable?

 

[Astronuc]

I guess accuracy is not important as long as the source is acceptable?

We should strive for accuracy. A proper way to handle the situation is to indicate so-and-so reports . . . . , and then try to indicate if it seems accurate or not, and preferably find a video of the actual statement.

I've seen both Trump and Clinton mis-quoted, and I've seen conflicting statements in the media. I've also seen various media quote/attribute statements to other media sources without checking the accuracy of the statements. That's poor journalism.

 

[rootone]

We should strive for accuracy.

Incredibly though, what happened with the 'Brexit' vote in the UK was that after the dust settled, the leading campaigners for 'out' pretty much accepted that much of what they had been saying was pure spin, and not at all accurate, but the salient point was that they won!

 

[Salvador]

biasing of opinion is the one sin we are all guilty of. Everyone has an opinion , that opinion might be better for some or uninformed for others but it's still an opinion , the problem arises when someone doesn't like a different opinion and tries to manipulate it , add to it or delete it altogether.

The media is doing an awful job with this election , they try to whitewash one candidate and screw the other in the ground more than he screws himself.
I understand both the desire and political will coming from the top executives at the major news organizations to demolish Trump by all means but isn't this a democracy ? Shouldn't the people be given the full chance to choose their future and either elect or "delete" a candidate...
Some might say that many folks are too ignorant and uneducated to see through a candidates lies and so the media has to help them adding their opinion and bias along the way but well I say if the majority becomes blind enough to fall for a liar and a scam, then I say they deserve that.
Freedom means constant sacrifice and truth means for one to seek it.No need to babysit grown ups and feed them what they need to hear or see.They should do that for themselves.That being said Trump has stolen the show with this election , most of the attention has been and still is solely focused around his most infamous quotes.Hillary can use this to ride almost freely because she gets next to no bad news coverage and next to no deeper evaluation, apart from Trumps yelling about her being crooked which in itself doesn't do much evaluation nor gives her the pressure and "heat" under which she would be forced to respond.
Both candidates should be vetted equally and after all we live in such dangerous and unstable times in the world and simply giving away all the attention to some racist remarks it just goes to show that modern media is more about traffic which earns money and less about what the world will look like if things go either this or that direction.
Simply yelling from all corners that Trump is a disaster is not doing anything, not also helping anyone nor solving the problem why many support Trump and his remarks while others oppose them.

 

[Salvador]

With all that I have said I want to say I'm personally neutral with respect to both candidates because clearly the choice is as hard as that of a punch in the face and a punch in the face with the risk of additional bleeding and a broken nose. You might get the same from the first punch too, it's just that the second one has doubled down on it's promise to deliver such risk.

I hope a news article dated to late May this year isn't considered "old enough" to be current.
http://nypost.com/2016/05/22/how-corporate-america-bought-hillary-clinton-for-21m/
http://nypost.com/2016/05/22/how-corporate-america-bought-hillary-clinton-for-21m/
It's nothing new but still interesting.As much as I think Trump denying his tax returns is bad for his credentials as a candidate and also suspicious , I have to say Hillary having her track record with money is atleast a double standard if not a direct conflict of interest.
Basically speaking as someone who will not be quoted in the media a million times I can say that it feels like the speaking fees and donations are a kind and modern way of legal bribing.It's right here under everyone's nose.
One has to wonder do all these big corporations and financial firms are so desperate for the advice and cheer up of a government official that they are willing to spend millions for a few hour talk , or is this a good and legal way of paying someone and then waiting for the return of the favor...

And don't tell me this hasn't come into your mind atleast several times when looking at this election.
To me it seems that not one but this time both candidates are actually business people and both are shady in terms of their business.

 

[Astronuc]

Louis Black - "At some point, it's go to stop"
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/gemze...anel---america-s-exhausting-presidential-race

I like the idea of no campaigning between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Summer is the time to take a break.

 

[Evo]

Trump thinks he can "turn off the internet" where and when he wants.

"We cannot allow the internet to be used as a recruiting tool, and for other purposes, by our enemy," Trump said. "We must shut down their access to this form of communication, and we must do so immediately."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-explains-why-trump-cant-shut-down-internet-202157858.html