Can force be applied in vacuum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of force application in a vacuum, exploring whether forces can be exerted between objects in such an environment, and the existence of force fields like gravitational and electrical fields in a vacuum. The conversation touches on theoretical implications, misconceptions, and the relationship between vacuum and force application.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the capability to apply force is dependent on the medium, specifically in a vacuum.
  • There are assertions that two humans (or robots) in a vacuum can exert forces on each other, challenging the notion that they would pass through each other.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between vacuum and force, citing a physics teacher's claim that Newtonian forces do not exist in a vacuum.
  • Another participant argues against the teacher's claim, stating that fundamental forces are defined in a vacuum and that gravitational forces allow planets to orbit the sun.
  • There is a distinction made between vacuum and fieldless regions, with some participants suggesting that vacuum can still contain fields.
  • Questions arise about the nature of contact forces and how they operate at the microscopic level in a vacuum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether forces can be applied in a vacuum, with some asserting that they can and others referencing educational misconceptions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of forces in a vacuum.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the confusion surrounding the definitions of vacuum and fieldless regions, indicating that assumptions about these terms may influence the understanding of force application.

donaldparida
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Is the capability to apply force dependent on the medium.Suppose two human beings are placed in vacuum.Now, can they apply forces on each other?
Also, can force fields such as gravitational and electrical fields exist in vacuum and if so then why?
 
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donaldparida said:
Is the capability to apply force dependent on the medium.Suppose two human beings are placed in vacuum.Now, can they apply forces on each other?
Also, can force fields such as gravitational and electrical fields exist in vacuum and if so then why?
Yes. Yes. Yes. Think about it for a moment.
 
donaldparida said:
Suppose two human beings are placed in vacuum. Now, can they apply forces on each other?
What else should happen? That they pass through each other like ghosts, or what?
 
Well, I guess the two guys will die pretty soon in vacuo and thus not exert forces on each other anymore ;-)). SCNR.
 
Then replace the humans with robots.
 
George Carlin knows the answer.
 
I think you really mean to say in space - correct? Otherwise I have no idea why you think a vacuum affects forces. In space, you may be thinking there is nothing to "push against" - but how do rockets work, they expell a propellant in one direction that pushes ( generates a force) on the rocket in the opposite direction.
 
donaldparida said:
Then replace the humans with robots.
You do realize that we already sent humans and robots into space?
 
Well, I don't understand the question. Why shouldn't you be able to exert a force on another object, only because you are in a vacuum in the first place?
 
  • #10
Well, I am confused over this since i used to think earlier that you apply force in vacuum but my physics teacher said that Newtonian forces do not exist in vacuum.
 
  • #11
Did he give an explanation, how he came to that conclusion? It's totally ununderstandable to me, how you can get such an idea. The fundamental forces are all defined in "the vacuum". Forces like pressure of a gas or something like that are derived from the vacuum theory (hydrodynamics, kinetic gas theory) via statistical mechanics. On a fundamental level forces are mediated by fields, which can move through space as any other "object".
 
  • #12
No, he did not provide an explanation. Well the conversation between us was somewhat like this:
Me- What happens to the energy of an object when we lift an object in a vacuum or a fieldless region as opposed to the case when we lift it in a field such as a gravitational field(in which case its P.E. increases).
Teacher-Newtonian forces do not exist in vacuum and so the question of lifting them in vacuum does not arise.
 
  • #13
Well, if there is no gravitational force in a vacuum, how comes that the planets run in nice bound orbits around the sun? This is only possible if there is a force, according to Newton's 1st law. You teacher is thus plain wrong.
 
  • #14
donaldparida said:
No, he did not provide an explanation. Well the conversation between us was somewhat like this:
Me- What happens to the energy of an object when we lift an object in a vacuum or a fieldless region as opposed to the case when we lift it in a field such as a gravitational field(in which case its P.E. increases).
Teacher-Newtonian forces do not exist in vacuum and so the question of lifting them in vacuum does not arise.
Maybe he meant the fieldless region not the vacuum as such?
 
  • #15
You mean that Newtonian forces don't exist in fieldless regions
 
  • #16
When there is "no field", there is no force.

Your question to your teacher seemed to equate vacuum to fieldless region. They are not the same thing. You can have vacuum but with fields. This is VERY common. We accelerate charged particles in vacuum!

Zz.
 
  • #17
I guess you are talking about field forces and what about forces applied by contact.
 
  • #18
donaldparida said:
I guess you are talking about field forces and what about forces applied by contact.

What do you think "contact" is at the miscroscopic level?

Zz.
 
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