Can you help me calculate the required torque and power of this motor?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the required torque and power for a motor to rotate a platform at 20 RPM, with preliminary calculations yielding torque of 0.15 N*m and power of approximately 0.3 W. Participants highlight the importance of accurately calculating the moment of inertia, suggesting the use of the parallel axis theorem for components like the rods and claw. Friction in the bearings is also noted as a significant factor that could affect the torque requirements, with estimates indicating that an additional 1 W may be needed to overcome it. The consensus is that the initially calculated power seems low, and further testing with a simplified prototype is recommended to validate the calculations. Overall, the need for a more thorough mathematical model to inform design decisions is emphasized.
nashsth
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Hi everyone, I want to rotate this (see attached image) platform at a speed of 20 RPM. To this end, I have to calculate the torque and power of a motor required. I have done preliminary calculations, however the numbers I'm getting doesn't seem right. For example, I'm getting that the torque required is 0.15 N*m, and the power is ~0.3 W.

Here are the details:

In the image, the brown part is stationary, and only the blue discs are rotated using a motor, which is shown in the lower right. So basically, the motor at the lower right corner is connected to the blue disc (via e.g. a belt). Then, that blue disc is attached to the middle blue disc with the silver hollow cylindrical object via the three tall rods, and this disc is connected to the top-most disc also via the three rods.

For context, the idea is to use the brown part as a shelf in which canned goods are stored. The central disc system is a mechanism for lifting these cans. The central blue disc (with the hollow cylindrical object) is the platform which can move up and down (between the upper and lower blue discs, as shown by the up-down arrow), it can rotate (as shown by the curved arrows), and the cylindrical object (i.e. the "claw") can extend and retract (as shown by the left-right arrow).

The question is, how much torque and power must the motor provide to ensure that the assembly rotates at 20 RPM, and takes 0.5 seconds to accelerate from 0 RPM to 20 RPM? The mass of each of the blue disks is estimated to be 1 kg, and the mass of the three rods is estimated to be 1 kg in total, and the claw can support a canned good whose mass is 1 kg at most.

So I approached this problem by first noting that Power = Tau * Omega, where Tau is the torque and Omega is the angular velocity.
Next, Tau = I*alpha, where I is the moment of inertia of the entire system, and alpha is the angular acceleration.

To calculate the moment of inertia, I used I = 0.5*M*R^2, where M is the mass of the object in consideration, and R is the radius. For the disks, the radius is ~6 inches (0.15 meters), and the mass is 1 kg, as noted above. For the canned good, the mass is also 1 kg, and the radius is ~2 inches (0.051 meters). Hence, the moment of inertia for each disk is 0.01125 kg*m^2, and the moment of inertia for the can is 1.3*10^-3 kg*m^2. The total moment of inertia for the three disks and the can is 0.035 kg*m^2. I ignored the moment of inertia for the three rods because they're incredibly small (on the order of -6).

The angular acceleration is just 20 RPM / 0.5 seconds = 2.1 rad/sec / 0.5 sec = 4.2 rad/sec^2

Then, the torque would be: Tau = 0.035*4.2 = 0.147 N*m

The power would be: Power = (0.147 N*m) * (2.1 rad/sec) = 0.31 W

I feel that these values for torque and power are too small to be able to rotate my assembly, but I am not a mechanical engineer so I don't have a good feel for these kinds of things. If anyone could check over my numbers and/or suggest a new way to approach the problem, I would greatly appreciate it.
 

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nashsth said:
I used ##I = {1\over 2}*M*R^2##
That's good for cylinders rotating about their length axis. But the cans and the rods rotate about the axis of the disks, so you have to use the parallel axis theorem (i.e. add ##mr^2## where ##r## is the distance between axes.
nashsth said:
The angular acceleration is just 20 RPM / 0.5 seconds = 2.1 rad/sec / 0.5 sec = 4.2 rad/sec^2
Can't be. 20 RPM = 40 ##\pi## rad/s

"(on the order of -6). " is unintellegible...

And: you also have to overcome friction ...
 
BvU said:
That's good for cylinders rotating about their length axis. But the cans and the rods rotate about the axis of the disks, so you have to use the parallel axis theorem (i.e. add ##mr^2## where ##r## is the distance between axes.
Can't be. 20 RPM = 40 ##\pi## rad/s

"(on the order of -6). " is unintellegible...

And: you also have to overcome friction ...

Hi, thanks for your response. 20 RPM is 2.1 rad/sec, since RPM = rotations per minute (i.e. every minute, you're going 2pi radians), so 20 RPM = 20*2pi/60 sec ~ 2.09 rad/sec ~ 2.1 rad/sec.

For the cylinder and the rods, since the claw in which the cylinder is housed is extendable/retractable, the cylinder will be held right above the centre of the disk, so that the parallel axis theorem wouldn't be necessary to use (or so I thought!)

When calculating the moment of inertia of the rods, they're very tiny e.g. I got something like 2.7*10^-6 kg*m^2. The reason is that I approximated these as cylinders, with a radius of 0.25 inches (0.0064 meters), and mass of ~300 grams. However, I had not considered using the parallel axis theorem for them, so that's something I can try.

As for the friction issue, I'm not sure how to model friction. Would you have any ideas on how to approach that? I suppose it'd be static friction but between what components? The motor and the disk?
 
nashsth said:
20 RPM is 2.1 rad/sec
Oops, my bad o:) . Three seconds/revolution is of course 2.1 rad/s.
nashsth said:
cylinder will be held right above the centre of the disk, so that the parallel axis theorem wouldn't be necessary to use (or so I thought!)
I agree. I should have read better ( o:) again ...)

nashsth said:
so that's something I can try.
I'd recommend that... ##I## of rods around own axis is indeed negligible.

What about ##I## for claw plus extension/retraction mechanism ?

Friction will be in the bearings

All in all I also have the feeling the required power thus calculated is rather small ... (I think you want to concentrate on torque instead of power)

Maybe do some tests with a simplified prototype...
 
Hi thanks for your response again! :)

Yes I also forgot to do the calculations for the extension/retraction mechanism and the claw, but I feel that it shouldn't dramatically affect the torque requirements :/ The mass of these things are in the order of several hundred grams at most, and their radii etc are on the order of several inches. I'd estimate that it'd increase the moment of inertia by ~10% at most, since these aren't the heaviest objects in the assembly.

The friction factor is something I'll have consider more rigorously though, although once again I don't think it should require that much torque. I'd estimate that if it takes 0.4 W (I got this number by including the moment of inertia of the rods via the parallel axis theorem), then it'd take another 1 W of power at most to overcome the static friction. So the overall power the motor would need is 1.4 W, which still seems rather small :/

This project is a school design project, and the one thing they keep nagging us about is that we must mathematically model our design so that we can make a more informed decision on what parts to buy.
 
For friction of the bearing(s) supporting the assembly you should use the weight of the assembly plus the weight of the items placed upon the assembly and the bearing mfr's technical data for the friction factor for the bearing you select.
 
Awesome, thanks for the information guys :)
 
Just for completeness:
Depending on its details, don't forget the losses due to the drive belt. Belt tension will put side loadings on the motor and platform bearings. And depending on the belt stiffness, there may be noticeable energy needed to bend it around the drive pulley.
 
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