News Canada: Liberals didnt flock here

[Pengwuino]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050804/wl_canada_nm/canada_canada_usa_immigration_col_1

Turns out the cry-babys that said they were going to leave to Canada if bush was elected were... of course... lieing... as usual. Sensationalism at its greatest.

 

[Smurf]

Whatever...

 

[MaxS]

MY GOD!

Well now, in my view this completely justifies the countless atrocities commited by the Administration. Those stupid liberals, why can't they just live with a constant state of war and take their loss of civil liberties like the rest of us, in complete ignorance?

 

[Kerrie]

From what I have read, it's not easy to become a Canadian citizen...what you have to offer Canada, such as your education and job skills, is what helps your acceptance. What I don't understand is though, my last visit up there I saw a ton of Asians, and Eastern Indians who own businesses. Does Canada offer help to those who wish to be self employed?

And I imagine that the colder weather was somewhat of a deterrent for many Americans, as well as having no hockey this past season.

 

[SamuelGreen800]

Not really surprising. Not really thread worthy either.

But man I would like to move to Canada when I get out of school. Such beautiful countryside has quite a pull for me.

 

[Dagenais]

Turns out the cry-babys that said they were going to leave to Canada if bush was elected were... of course... lieing... as usual. Sensationalism at its greatest.

Yeah, I'm sure highly liberal Quebec can't wait to have American Democrats invading their culture and cities.

What makes them think we even want them in Canada? Canda isn't a 2nd-tier, back-up home for Americans.

Just because their unhappy with America doesn't mean Canada needs them to flock over. Do they think that just because Eastern Canada is Liberal, that that automatically gives them right to residency?

A lot of them believe that they can just march up to Canada and find a place to live. They have no clue how immigration works. The income tax itself will have them rushing back down to the States.

And what if they have problems with Stephen Harper? Where next? Greenland?

What I don't understand is though, my last visit up there I saw a ton of Asians, and Eastern Indians who own businesses. Does Canada offer help to those who wish to be self employed?

I'm guessing you were in British Columbia (lower mainland).

The deal for Asians and East Indians to get into Canada usually requires that they have a strong education and that they must have a good amount of money.

If you go to Richmond, British Columbia, you'll immediately notice the amount of wealthy Asians, usually from Hong Kong. You can find the same thing in Coquitlam, and Surrey where a lot of East Indians live.

In order to come to Canada, they must be able to support themselves completely, without Government aid. From what I've been told, sometimes employers don't completely recognize their college education or are uncomfortable with their language skills. Therefore, starting a business is a quick (risky) way to make money. Since a lot of them are wealthy anyways, starting a small business is not much of a problem.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050804/wl_canada_nm/canada_canada_usa_immigration_col_1

Turns out the cry-babys that said they were going to leave to Canada if bush was elected were... of course... lieing... as usual. Sensationalism at its greatest.

We would like to have left but its not so easy. In our case, family demands, for example, my mother who is in the hospital for the forth time in two months, exceeded our desire to leave. So grow up.

I should add that Tsu didn't want to move farther north, but all option were off the table because of family.

 

[pattylou]

We are still considering it. Though Canada is too closeto bush. We'd move to New Zealand. In some ways, we are closer to it now than we were in November; Mike said for the first time last week : If such and such happens, we *will* leave the country.

Also, see this report:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1105-24.htm

THere is no denying that liberals were stunned into considering a move. Almost every liberal I know had their plan in place - where they'd go, etc. I personally searched for job opportunities from other countries and printed them out, and I still have those on hand.

I'm not sure what your point is. Were you going to miss us?

 

[arildno]

I would hope that those Americans who are most faithful to the finest ideals of their nation (i.e., the liberals) choose to remain in the U.S, and sort out the mess after..


You're welcome in Norway, BTW.

 

[Pengwuino]

From what I have read, it's not easy to become a Canadian citizen...what you have to offer Canada, such as your education and job skills, is what helps your acceptance. What I don't understand is though, my last visit up there I saw a ton of Asians, and Eastern Indians who own businesses. Does Canada offer help to those who wish to be self employed?

Half the businesses in my city are owned by eastern indians. Supposedly its because of how their culture works (pooled money through the church)

 

[Pengwuino]

Just because their unhappy with America doesn't mean Canada needs them to flock over. Do they think that just because Eastern Canada is Liberal, that that automatically gives them right to residency?

A lot of them believe that they can just march up to Canada and find a place to live. They have no clue how immigration works. The income tax itself will have them rushing back down to the States.

No one said Canada needs them to flock over. They just threatened to move to Canada if Bush was re-elected. Of course, as we can see now, no one actually did it because they were simply over-reacting and doing their usual sensationalism.

 

[Pengwuino]

We would like to have left but its not so easy. In our case, family demands, for example, my mother who is in the hospital for the forth time in two months, exceeded our desire to leave. So grow up.

Grow up? Thats surely not a nice comment! Especially in the GD:PWA forum. I don't remember you going on national tv telling people that you were leaving for Canada... Please don't get so defensive.

 

[Pengwuino]

I would hope that those Americans who are most faithful to the finest ideals of their nation (i.e., the liberals) choose to remain in the U.S, and sort out the mess after..

Actually the right is the only group faithful to the ideals of our nation. Thats why the left want to leave. Being faithful to a nation doesn't mean mass exodus the second you don't like something. The right-wing is for capitalism, the Constitution, and freedom... this is counter to what the left in this country enjoys as seen in the latest scandals around here.

 

[Pengwuino]

No they're not. They're a bunch of disgusting human beings who pervert a great nation be their mere existence.

So where did you live when you lived in the US?

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes, I do know you have lapped up stupid rhetoric as deep truths.
It is quite evident from all your posts, you know.

Well I think your comment that you quickly deleted shows exactly what kind of person you are.

 

[Pengwuino]

No they're not. They're a bunch of disgusting human beings who pervert a great nation be their mere existence.

I caught it before you deleted it (or maybe a mod did). And again, where did you live in the US when you did live here?

 

[Pengwuino]

Your point being?

Where did you live?

And I didn't know, for example, my sister who takes care of 7 kids and a grandchild and works as a real estate agent while her husband attends college, is a disgusting human being

I mean it must be a rather baseless and hateful statement if you had to delete it (or a mod decided to deliete it).

 

[pattylou]

Actually the right is the only group faithful to the ideals of our nation. Thats why the left want to leave. Being faithful to a nation doesn't mean mass exodus the second you don't like something. The right-wing is for capitalism, the Constitution, and freedom... this is counter to what the left in this country enjoys as seen in the latest scandals around here.

So if we leave... we're unfaithful to the nation...
... and if we stay, we're sensationalistc crybabies?

Hunh. Sounds like the only alternatives are to (1) keep our mouths shut at the atrocities Bush is committing (would we get your respect if we "sucked it up" or would our silence just be more evidence for you that the nation is heading in a conservative direction?) or (2) decide we agree with you. i.e. no personal freedom of thought or choice, etc.

And... Pengwuino... I do hope you realize that there were *no* liberals that were trying to advertise their fervent wishes to leave, outside of some celebrities (and we can agree they are a bit given to drama.) Any sensationalism you perceved... was the result of the media picking up on things like the number of hits on the Canada immigration website. You'll need to forgiuve us if we didn't have the foresight to be more clandestine in our plans!

And lest it be forgotten, we are all on the same side - we all want what is best for this country.

 

[Pengwuino]

Saw your edit.
Yes, I do get angry at times, and then delete what I wrote then.

Perhaps you should consider what sort of person YOU are who actively choose to ignore the fact that the original post was removed.

Well that certainly doesn't help your case. It means I actively show that the only thing you enjoy saying are things full of hatred and bigotry. You seem to think you know a lot about the US when all you know is hateful propoganda.

Secondly, what sort of person on PF is it who brand "liberals" as traitors?
Who is that person, Pengwuino?

Im not sure... especially since your the one who branded the right as traitors...

 

[Pengwuino]

So if we leave... we're unfaithful to the nation...
... and if we stay, we're sensationalistc crybabies?

Hunh. Sounds like the only alternatives are to (1) keep our mouths shut at the atrocities Bush is committing (would we get your respect if we "sucked it up" or would our silence just be more evidence for you that the nation is heading in a conservative direction?) or (2) decide we agree with you. i.e. no personal freedom of thought or choice, etc.

And... Pengwuino... I do hope you realize that there were *no* liberals that were trying to advertise their fervent wishes to leave, outside of some celebrities (and we can agree they are a bit given to drama.) Any sensationalism you perceved... was the result of the media picking up on things like the number of hits on the Canada immigration website. You'll need to forgiuve us if we didn't have the foresight to be more clandestine in our plans!

And lest it be forgotten, we are all on the same side - we all want what is best for this country.

Third option: do what everyone has done since Day 1 of this nation. Protest, write congressmen, etc etc. Rather obvious isn't it? Please leave sensationalism out of this thread. You knew what a third option would be.

And yes, there were many people saying they wanted to leave... unless of course, i simply dreamed up the constant barrage of local news stories where common people said they were leaving to Canada. And yes, I do know most people want what's best for the US, but what's "best" is different depending on what your beliefs are. Some people think a open society where you can have sex in public and do any drug you want and demand other people pay for your hospitalization is the best for the US while others thing a medieval theocracy is what's best for the US. Most people are somewhere in between of course, and thanks to democracy, its simply a struggle to see how far people can get on either side of the scale... or come to an agreement on middle ground.

 

[Pengwuino]

No, it shows that you are the one filled with hatred and bigotry, Pengwuino.
This is evident throughout your postings at PF.

Oh yes, your right. Its fairly evident where I call people from Norway Disgusting human beings and such. Now please, voice your hateful comments somewhere else.

 

[pattylou]

Third option: do what everyone has done since Day 1 of this nation. Protest, write congressmen, etc etc. Rather obvious isn't it? Please leave sensationalism out of this thread. You knew what a third option would be.

No, I didn't. You had kept the thread very black - and - white. Liberals want to leave and don't, so they're crybabies. Conservatives are happy and stay, so they're faithful.

Leave vs. stay --- until this post you indicated no middle ground. I am glad to see you can see middle ground.

And yes, there were many people saying they wanted to leave... unless of course, i simply dreamed up the constant barrage of local news stories where common people said they were leaving to Canada.

My point was that the *media* was behind this story being aired, unless you know of some sort of liberal person or group who went out of their way to get on the news over this?

Doesn't it seem more likely that the news thought this unprecedented reaction (as evidenced on the link I gave earlier) warranted coverage --- and went out to find people to talk to?

We're not crybabies.

And yes, I do know most people want what's best for the US, but what's "best" is different depending on what your beliefs are. Some people think a open society where you can have sex in public and do any drug you want and demand other people pay for your hospitalization is the best for the US while others thing a medieval theocracy is what's best for the US. Most people are somewhere in between of course, and thanks to democracy, its simply a struggle to see how far people can get on either side of the scale... or come to an agreement on middle ground.

Let's hope we find middle ground then.

 

[arildno]

Well that certainly doesn't help your case. It means I actively show that the ONLY thing you enjoy saying are things full of hatred and bigotry. .

Oh, really?

 

[Pengwuino]

My point was that the *media* was behind this story being aired, unless you know of some sort of liberal person or group who went out of their way to get on the news over this?

Doesn't it seem more likely that the news thought this unprecedented reaction (as evidenced on the link I gave earlier) warranted coverage --- and went out to find people to talk to?

We're not crybabies.

Well now your saying that the media put the person who was interviewed up to this and that he really didn't mean it. Of course, there's no way for me to prove that the people interviewed were telling the truth but the burder of proof here resides with you finding evidence that the people were forced to say that they were going to leave. I'm talking about actual personal interviews here, not the media saying "Look at all the hits on Canada's immigration website!".

And please stop being defensive. I did not say all liberals are crybabies. I simply said those who said they were going to leave yet chose not to were crybabies. That type of action is very chidlish. Its equivalent to a kid saying he's going to run away from home if his mother doesn't give him the latest barbie doll. It personifies being a cry-baby... for those who chose to get on national/local television to say something they didn't really mean.

 

[arildno]

This is a typical example of your inbred hatred and bigotry, Pengwuino:

Turns out the cry-babys that said they were going to leave to Canada if bush was elected were... of course... lieing... AS USUAL.

It is simply false.
Besides, you should learn English grammar.

 

[pattylou]

Well now your saying that the media put the person who was interviewed up to this and that he really didn't mean it.

Ummm... no, that's not what I'm saying.

I am saying there was a real sentiment to leave, and it was not something we took out full page ads over.

We looked at immigration requirements for Canada, etc.

The Canada immigration site had historical levels of hits following the election.

I am saying that the media recognized this sentiment, saw a story, and went with it.

Can you understand how this is not the same thing as one side opf the country being "crybabies?"

 

[Pengwuino]

This is a typical example of your inbred hatred and bigotry, Pengwuino:

It is simply false.

Oh so they were telling the truth? They actually left? Well... according to Canada's immigration department... they didnt. And i didn't know simple insults towards a narrowly defined group of outspoken people are considered bigotry while your broad and disgusting insult of a political prefernece isnt.

 

[Pengwuino]

Can you understand how this is not the same thing as one side opf the country being "crybabies?"

I didn't say this was a whole side of the country being crybabies unless you can prove that every liberal in the US said they were going to leave. And you seem to miss the point completely. They said they were going to leave and all evidence points to the fact that they didn't. Thus, crybaby-ism. The media did not force them to say they were going to leave... they chose to say it themselves. If they did not want to do that, they wouldn't have said it.

 

[Pengwuino]

Besides, you should learn English grammar.

Yet another example of you dodging the issues and trying to take the subject off-topic.

 

[arildno]

Oh so they were telling the truth? They actually left? Well... according to Canada's immigration department... they didnt. And i didn't know simple insults towards a narrowly defined group of outspoken people are considered bigotry while your broad and disgusting insult of a political prefernece isnt.

a) You said "AS USUAL", and I emphasized those words. The statement you gave is false.

b) Words spoken in anger is less characteristic of an individual than those spoken when he tries to be rational or merely informative.

 

[Pengwuino]

Actually its more characteristic. When someone is trying to be informative, your surpressing all emotions in an attempt to present a clear message. Your emotions are what make you who you are and they allow what your thinking to come out in its clearest forms. At least, that's how most people come off.

 

[pattylou]

And please stop being defensive.

I did not say all liberals are crybabies. I simply said those who said they were going to leave yet chose not to were crybabies.

If I say this a third time, will it sink in? You heard that message because the media ran with it.

Let's turn that around. Here's a message I have heard from a whacked out republican (they're not all this crazy.) She said in all seriousness (and thinking this was a good plan overall) that we should threaten to nuke iraq in order to retrieve OBL. That we should give them 48 hours to comply, because they must know where he was hiding.

THis is a bit sensationalistic.

Now, let's say there were enough people with this mindset that the media decided to make a story out of it

Americans Won't Play Ball: Demand Iraq Turns Over bin Laden (Update 2)

This is "equivalent" to a kid saying "If you don't blah blah blah I'm going to tell dad and you're going to be in trouououble!"

Should I then go on the physics forum and say "Those conservatives are such bullying brats. I can't believe they wanted to nuke Iraq."

It personifies being a cry-baby... for those who chose to get on national/local television to say something they didn't really mean.

You know, this is going nowhere. I suggest you re-read some of the earlier posts on this thread.

THe basic response was incredible depression. A desire to leave. If you ever look at the process of grief you'll see this is common normal and healthy.

After the desire to leave, some small hope re-establishes itself. We rally, gather our forces, and try to make things better *now.* We've had some effect - grassroots have affected Boxer's choices, and other examples I have listed before (ex: Prepackaged news, other).

I'm sorry if you somehow see this as childish. I am not being defensive in saying I am sorry, merely sad that you don't seem to connect with the *human beings* who are your countrymen and who really are every bit as interested in the country's well being, as I assume you are.

 

[arildno]

Actually its more characteristic. When someone is trying to be informative, your surpressing all emotions in an attempt to present a clear message. Your emotions are what make you who you are and they allow what your thinking to come out in its clearest forms. At least, that's how most people come off.

..

 

[Kerrie]

Let's get back on track instead of arguing with one another, otherwise this thread (which I think is a good one) will need to be locked.

 

[Pengwuino]

Thats odd because that's all I ever hear on this part of the site. Some Republican says something crazy like that and a thread is made about it bashing him from one end to the other. If you say something, you should mean it. If everyone said what they meant and were prepared to be accountable for it, this world would be... well maybe it woudl be boring, but it would sure be a more trusthworthy place.

Please do not try to bring up something that is obviously a double standard around this forum. Bush says somethign stupid and threads start popping up outa nowhere with no signs of "oh well, get over it, he doesn't really mean it". The US does something wrong and threads fly up over how its the worst country on earth.

We all need to mean what we say... it makes for a better world. And we also need to not have double standards where only 1 type of person is insulted for what he says while another type gets the forgive and forget treatment.

 

[Pengwuino]

Let's get back on track instead of arguing with one another, otherwise this thread (which I think is a good one) will need to be locked.

Good idea. I can only get intelligable responses out of pattylou at this point.

 

[Smurf]

oh come on. please lock it anyway! pllleeeaaasseee

 

[Pengwuino]

oh come on. please lock it anyway! pllleeeaaasseee

As Ivan told me once, if you don't have anything to contribute, please don't post.

And no... this is not an insult or threat...

[size=-5]im just tryen to get the last post before the lock :D[/size]

 

[arildno]

You have still not admitted to the blatant fact that your very first statement in this thread was a lie.
That is, the sentence:
"Turns out the cry-babys that said they were going to leave to Canada if bush was elected were of course lieing as usual"

 

[pattylou]

Please do not try to bring up something that is obviously a double standard. Bush says somethign stupid and threads start popping up outa nowhere with no signs of "oh well, get over it, he doesn't really mean it".

We all need to mean what we say... it makes for a better world. And we also need to not have double standards where only 1 type of person is insulted for what he says while another type gets the forgive and forget treatment.

... And if my friend had been president you can bet her comment would have been in the news. I think it is reasonable to hold a different standard for statesmen than for podunk (but incredibly brilliant) people like us on the internet.

It's not a double standard. If Kerry were president, he'd be the one being raked over the coals. The fact that you have the majority everywhere you look, means that the quotes are going to come from your party.

Feel free to start a thread on Dean's recent (last month?) idiotic comments. I bet that would actually make a great thread. There's nothing to stop you!

It's great to mean what you say. It's also important to recognize that human beings are whimsical and emotional, no matter how much it may be suppressed, and a precipitous desire to flee the country can be later tempered by things like ill mothers and the trauma of uprooting your children and plopping them unceremoniously into a new culture.

Were you at all nervous on election day? Think you might have said a thing or two you wouldn't say under other circumstances? Honest question.

 

[pattylou]

Good idea. I can only get intelligable responses out of pattylou at this point.

That's practically a compliment. See? I told you you were brilliant.

 

[arildno]

Pengwuino:
You have still not admitted to the blatant fact that your very first statement in this thread was a lie.
That is, the sentence:
"Turns out the cry-babys that said they were going to leave to Canada if bush was elected were of course lieing as usual"

 

[Pengwuino]

Im sorry, let me go find some data to support the "fact" that they weren't lieing

*pours over thousands of articles showing huge immigration application increases*

Oh man your so right, Americans are pouring into Canada since Bush's re-election!

*end sarcasm*

 

[arildno]

Now, you are obfuscating:
You KNOW it is untrue that they were "lying as usual".
That makes you into a liar.

 

[Pengwuino]

I do? Well the Canadian immigration agency in charge of this sure doesn't think I am a liar since i am repeating what they are saying. Are you saying the Canadian government is a lieing government?

 

[arildno]

I do? Well the Canadian immigration agency in charge of this sure doesn't think I am a liar since i am repeating what they are saying. Are you saying the Canadian government is a lieing government?

You are a liar, and you are still obfuscating.
I am not surprised; it fits your personality perfectly.

 

[Pengwuino]

So the Canadian government is lieing... sure... Please refrain from posting unless you have something factual and useful to say.

 

[arildno]

So the Canadian government is lieing... sure... Please refrain from posting unless you have something factual and useful to say.

1) First of all, learn how to write English.
2) Secondly, stop obfuscating.
3) Admit that you started out this thread with a blatant lie.
4) You are a disgrace to your nation, because you are an inveterate liar and obfuscator

 

[Pengwuino]

You are a disgrace to your nation and to mankind. You are refusing to provide any factual information. You have no proof that what I say is a lie. All you have is your own hateful opinions of everything. Please refrain from posting unless you have some factual backing to what you say.

 

[arildno]

You are a disgrace to your nation and to mankind. You are refusing to provide any factual information. You have no proof that what I say is a lie. All you have is your own hateful opinions of everything. Please refrain from posting unless you have some factual backing to what you say.

You were implying that liberals were lying AS USUAL. That is false, they do not usually lie. Implying that they are is what makes you into an actual liar.