Pelosi was particularly harsh in describing the CIA

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Nancy Pelosi is very critical of the CIA. These are her comments:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_pelosi_torture [Broken]

"Pelosi was particularly harsh in describing the CIA.

Particularly..."On Thursday, Pelosi accused the CIA of having lied"

"They mislead us all the time," she said. And when a reporter asked whether the agency had lied, Pelosi said yes.

She also suggested that the current Republican criticism marked an attempt to divert attention from the Bush administration's actions.

"They misrepresented every step of the way, and they don't want that focus on them, so they try to turn the attention on us," she said. "

These are very serious allegations from the Speaker/senior Democrat on the Intelligence Committee,

It is clearly time for an investigation of these alleged lies by the CIA, I think the Speaker should be required to bring charges (it is her duty)...to force testimony under oath by everyone involved...under penalty of perjury.
 
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  • #2
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I would agree to that.
 
  • #3
Ivan Seeking
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...if it is possible. Recall that often they [Congressional members] weren't allowed to have any documented evidence of what was said.

What has really caught my attention lately is Cheney. He is acting like a man who is trying to cover his butt.

Then came this little exchange
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2197937#post2197937
 
  • #4
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I reaad your post Ivan, but I don't see the point your making. Cheney correctly said that the president had to sign off on it.
 
  • #5
Chi Meson
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Take this to the politics subforum, please. I come here to escape partisanship!
 
  • #6
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I come here to escape partisanship!
Although it is politics, I do not think the partisanship aspect is very relevant.
 
  • #7
LowlyPion
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There is also this from a couple of days ago.:
Former Sen. Bob Graham (Fla.), who was the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence panel in September 2002, told The Washington Post on Monday he was not told about waterboarding during a briefing he received around the same time Pelosi received hers.
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/hoekstra-calls-for-cia-documents-to-be-declassified-2009-05-11.html

Graham denied being told about EITs, and argued that the presence of two staff members at the meeting (as indicated in the records) would have made it “highly unusual” for the briefers to divulge such sensitive info. “I don’t recall having had one of those kinds of briefings with staff present,” he said. “That would defeat the purpose of keeping a tight hold” on the info.

Graham, however, was circumspect on what was actually discussed, saying only that “the general topic had to do with detainee interrogations” but didn’t include any reference to EITs or waterboarding.
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/bob-graham-i-wasnt-told-about-waterboarding-or-eits-in-my-briefing/ [Broken]
 
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  • #8
Ivan Seeking
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I reaad your post Ivan, but I don't see the point your making. Cheney correctly said that the president had to sign off on it.
He was not willing to state as a matter of fact that Bush knew what he knew. Based on Cheney's obfuscation, it sounds to me like Bush may have signed off on something that did not give the specifics of what was being done. When we ask if the President knew that we were torturing people, or if he specifically approved these techniques, we deserve a clear answer - yes, or no.

For the first time, I am beginning to wonder if Bush may really be innocent in all of this. On the other hand, Cheney could be trying to protect Bush, but that doesn't seem likely.
 
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  • #9
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He was not willing to state as a matter of fact that Bush knew what he knew. Based on Cheney's obfuscation, it sounds to me like Bush signed off on something that did not give the specifics of what was being done.

For the first time, I am beginning to wonder if Bush may really be innocent in all of this. On the other hand, Cheney could be trying to protect Bush, but that doesn't seem likely.
No.

SCHIEFFER: How much did President Bush know specifically about the methods that were being used? We know that you-- and you have said-- that you approved this...

SCHIEFFER: ... somewhere down the line. Did President Bush know everything you knew?

CHENEY: I certainly, yes, have every reason to believe he knew -- he knew a great deal about the program. He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential-level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it...

seems pretty clear to me he pinned it exactly on bush.
 
  • #10
mheslep
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Take this to the politics subforum, please. I come here to escape partisanship!
2nd that
 
  • #11
LowlyPion
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2nd that
That's fine with me. I third it.

There was a topic in politics on this that got locked for some reason - apparently prematurely, since it seems to be escalating into a broader fire storm sorting out what the CIA would have told congress.
 
  • #12
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Forget "waterboarding and Bush and politics in general for a minute. The topic of this post is this this statement by the Speaker of the House...

"They mislead us all the time," she said. And when a reporter asked whether the agency had lied, Pelosi said yes.

The CIA (EVERY government agency) needs to be held accountable to tell the truth to Congress...no exceptions.
 
  • #13
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Take this to the politics subforum, please. I come here to escape partisanship!
I agree...how do we do that?
 
  • #14
LowlyPion
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I agree...how do we do that?
There's the obvious solution of not starting it here in the first place.

With that bell run, report your first post and ask it to be moved may work.
 
  • #15
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Thank you Astronuc...for moving our thread.
 
  • #16
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Nancy Pelosi is 2 heartbeats away from the Presidency of the United States and a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee. We have no choice but to give her the benefit of the doubt.

She has accused officials of the CIA of misleading Congress "all the time"...and at a time of war. She said the CIA lied to Congress. This is a very serious charge and clearly a crime.

I'm not a lawyer, but at a minimum, this should be considered Contempt of Congress.
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/Contempt_of_Congress

I believe an independent prosecutor should be appointed to investigate the specific lies alleged by the Speaker...not a witch hunt about torture. Anyone who lies to Congress needs to be prosecuted...PERIOD!

This is not a partisan issue. The CIA is not Republican or Democratic...it serves the United States. It is time for testimony under oath.
 
  • #17
LowlyPion
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The plot thickens. Is this why Cheney has been so out front these days?
*Two U.S. intelligence officers confirm that Vice President Cheney’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner, a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein, who was suspected to have knowledge of a Saddam-al Qaeda connection.

*The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible.

*Much of the information in the report of the 9/11 Commission was provided through more than 30 sessions of torture of detainees.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/cheneys-role-deepens/

Was there a shadow operation going on with Cheney and the CIA going off the reservation, even to the point of offering Congress the opportunity to be misled? According to the time line these waterboardings would have been in 2003 apparently. Maybe after all the Nation will need to reach into the Executive Branch to see where all this disregard for the Law was coming from?
 
  • #18
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Right now, the Speaker of the House has made specific charges against specific members of the CIA regarding specific acts. These specific charges need to be prosecuted.
 
  • #19
LowlyPion
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Right now, the Speaker of the House has made specific charges against specific members of the CIA regarding specific acts. These specific charges need to be prosecuted.
At this point I don't see it stopping at what was said or not said at the September 4, 2002 briefing. This looks to have taken on a life of its own. I suspect that a broader charter will be explored. At this point I think the Republicans and Bush-Cheney-Rove can look to thank only themselves for their attempts at molding history.
 
  • #20
turbo
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Bob Graham denies being briefed on waterboarding

If you're interested in the issue, please listen to this radio interview until at least 10:30 or so into the interview. The CIA had claimed that Senator Bob Graham had been briefed 4 times on harsh interrogation techniques. After referring to his schedules and his ever-present spiral notebooks, he told the CIA that they were in error and he had only been briefed once. The CIA agreed that their records were in error and that he had been briefed once. Furthermore, Sen Graham claims that waterboarding and "enhanced interrogation techniques" were not discussed in the briefing. This is supported by his claim that two staffers were allowed to attend the briefing, which was never allowed when the CIA wanted to brief the "gang of eight" on covert operations. When briefings on covert operations are conducted, Congressional leaders and the ranking members of the intelligence committees are summoned on short notice, and are not allowed to discuss the briefing with any other person who was not in the room during the briefing. Graham was a conservative Democrat who (having been briefed on the fluffed-up intelligence leading to the invasion of Iraq) refused to support the Iraq war and urged his colleagues to follow suit.

http://www.wnyc.org/flashplayer/player.html#/play/%2Fstream%2Fxspf%2F131835 [Broken]
 
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  • #21
LowlyPion
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Can the CIA be trusted over treatment of detainees? Don't ask the British for a character reference:
CIA misled Britain over rendition plan

The CIA misled British intelligence chiefs over the arrest and treatment of terrorist suspects who were the subjects of rendition to Guantanamo Bay, an Intelligence and Security Committee report to the Prime Minister warned.

It said the deception threatens to undermine confidence in the exchange of intelligence between the CIA and MI6.

Coming only days before the Prime Minister flies to Washington for a summit with President George Bush, the report could prove embarrassing for Gordon Brown. However, he brushed aside the committee's criticism of the US over rendition. "Where people are at risk of being tortured we have made very clear about our rejection of such a policy... But I am not going to condemn the US authorities," he said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cia-misled-britain-over-rendition-plan-458756.html
 
  • #22
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Can the CIA be trusted over treatment of detainees? Don't ask the British for a character reference:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cia-misled-britain-over-rendition-plan-458756.html
Again LP... I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think misleading the MI5 is a crime (in the US anyway)? However, telling lies to Congress is a crime...and it needs to be prosecuted.

The Justice Department can't pick and choose which crimes are relevant.

Everyone citizen who is caught (with direct evidence) speeding/running a red light/shoplifting/vandalism faces prosecution. If the Speaker or Senator Graham have direct evidence that the CIA lied...they need to be called to testify and the guilty parties need to be prosecuted and removed from public service...forever.
 
  • #23
Astronuc
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I merged turbo's thread "Bob Graham denies being briefed on waterboarding" into this thread, since it's basically the same issue.


Please keep the discussion civil.

Please be clear about expressing opinion vs asserting facts, and claims must be supported by evidence.

Apparently Pelosi and Graham claim they were not informed on some or all of the "harsh interrogation techniques, and specifically about water-boarding.

People were at several different meetings, although some may have attended the same meeting, but those of us on the outside just don't know, and probably won't.

There does seem to be a partisan divide, but let's keep that in Washington, please.
 
  • #24
LowlyPion
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... but I don't think misleading the MI5 is a crime (in the US anyway)?
Not suggesting that it is.

But maybe there is a culture of deception inherent in the operation of the CIA? And where once others were so ready to believe that Pelosi would have lied, maybe the CIA should be the first suspect when it comes to weighing accounts of events?
 
  • #25
turbo
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Apparently Pelosi and Graham claim they were not informed on some or all of the "harsh interrogation techniques, and specifically about water-boarding.

People were at several different meetings, although some may have attended the same meeting, but those of us on the outside just don't know, and probably won't.
Graham cannot vouch for Pelosi's claims, because House and Senate leaders were briefed separately, weeks apart. His recollection of the briefing seems to mirror Pelosi's, though.
 

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