Compute Normal Forces on Box Sides via Stress-Energy Tensor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around computing the normal forces on the faces of a box moving through flat space-time, utilizing the stress-energy tensor (SET). Participants explore the implications of the SET being non-zero inside the box and zero outside, as well as the boundary conditions that must be satisfied.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the normal forces can be computed by multiplying the area of the box face by the pressure term ##T^{ii}##, but expresses uncertainty about its general applicability.
  • Another participant emphasizes that traction forces must sum to zero for an inertial box and references the equations of motion, suggesting that the stress must vanish at the boundary for a free-standing box.
  • A participant challenges the premise by stating that if the SET is non-zero anywhere, the spacetime cannot be flat, questioning whether an approximation is being considered.
  • A later reply clarifies that the discussion is framed within the context of special relativity, using an idealized box of constant density in the Rindler metric, and aims to plot the force reading from a spring scale against proper acceleration.
  • There is mention of preliminary calculations regarding boundary conditions and the divergence of the stress-energy tensor, with a focus on justifying these calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the stress-energy tensor's properties and the conditions under which the calculations are valid. There is no consensus on the general applicability of the proposed methods or the assumptions regarding the flatness of spacetime.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for careful consideration of boundary conditions and the divergence of the stress-energy tensor, indicating potential limitations in the assumptions made about the system.

pervect
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Suppose one has a box moving through flat space-time with a stress energy tensor ##T^{ab}## that's non-zero inside the box and zero outside the box. How does one compute the normal forces on the faces of the box associated with it's motion? I am assuming that the normal forces are measured via a spring scale attached to the appropriate box face. I'm also interested in what other boundary conditions the stress-energy tensor must satisfy (if there are any).

If the metric at a box face is diag (-1,1,1,1) I'm pretty sure the answer is that the area of the box face multiplied by the pressure term ##T^{ii}## gives the normal force on the box wall. But this doesn't seem to be true in general.
 
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I can highly recommend "The Linearized Theory of Elasticity" by William S. Slaughter. What you seek are called traction forces. For a box made of a real material the traction forces must sum to zero for an inertial box. While an applied stress can be arbitrary any real situation is the result of solving the equations of motion.

##\rho\ddot{u}_m = \partial^n T_{nm} + f_m##

For a free standing box not under the influence of external forces, ##f_m = 0##, the stress must vanish at the boundary. In the above ##n## and ##m## run over the space components only.
 
pervect said:
Suppose one has a box moving through flat space-time with a stress energy tensor ##T^{ab}## that's non-zero inside the box and zero outside the box.

Strictly speaking, this isn't possible; if the SET is nonzero anywhere, the spacetime can't be flat. Are you basically considering an approximation where the SET is so small that its effect on the spacetime geometry is negligible?
 
PeterDonis said:
Strictly speaking, this isn't possible; if the SET is nonzero anywhere, the spacetime can't be flat. Are you basically considering an approximation where the SET is so small that its effect on the spacetime geometry is negligible?

Yes - more precisely, I'm using the stress-energy tensor in the context of special relativity rather than general relativity. This is equivalent to the approximation you mentioned.

Basically I envision a box of idealized matter of constant density in the Rindler metric. The box is imagined to be dangling from a spring scale connected to the top of the box, and the goal is to plot the force reading from the spring scale vs the proper acceleration, both the force and proper acceleration being measured at the same point, the top of the box (the location matters).

Essentially, one "weighs" the box, plotting the weight (interpreted as a force) vs the acceleration.

The interesting result I'm getting and the goal of the exercise is to demonstrate that the force-acceleration curve for the box is not linear, unlike the case of a point particle.

The problem setup is basically specifying the boundary conditions (including how to compute the force at the box top, and setting the forces to zero on the other sides), and the vanishing of the divergence of the stress-energy tensor, ##\nabla_a T^{ab} = 0##.

I've got some preliminary calculations, but I'm trying to look more closely at justifying them, in particular the boundary conditions, particularly at the top of the box.
 

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