Confused about defining unique current loops when using the node voltage method

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    Engineering equations
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the node voltage method in circuit analysis, specifically focusing on defining unique current loops within a given network. Participants are exploring how to write equations based on the paths available in the circuit and the implications of choosing different loops.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether to include both paths from node 1 to node 3 when writing equations, indicating uncertainty about how to approach the node voltage method.
  • Another participant asserts that there are four unique loops in the network and that any set of four loops can be chosen without repetition, all yielding the same result.
  • A different participant emphasizes that there are always four distinct paths available, suggesting that while many sets of loops exist, they will lead to the same outcome.
  • One contributor notes that as long as each loop contains unique elements not found in others, it will result in four independent equations that describe the system accurately.
  • Another participant advises consistency in loop direction when applying Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL) to avoid errors, while also mentioning a similar approach for Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL).
  • A later reply challenges the use of the term "unique," stating that there are many distinct loops available, but only four are independent.
  • Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

    Participants generally agree that there are four independent loops that can be used in the analysis, but there is disagreement regarding the terminology of "unique" loops and the number of distinct paths available.

    Contextual Notes

    Participants have not resolved the definitions of "unique" versus "independent" loops, nor have they clarified the implications of including multiple paths in the equations.

Edy56
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Homework Statement
Write equations using node voltage method
Relevant Equations
none
Please only respond if you know the node voltage method.
I need to write equations for this circuit. My problem is that 1 has two paths towards 3, so when I write equations do I write both of those paths or only one.
U30(1(-jXc1)+1/(jXl1+R1)+1/(jXl2)-U10((1/(-jXc1)+1/(R1+jXl1))-U20.... (the rest is unimportant rn).
or
U30(1(-jXc1)+1/(jXl2)-U10((1/(-jXc1))-U20...
node.png
 
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There are 4 unique loops in that network. You are free to choose any set of 4 loops as long as you don't repeat any of them. All will yield the same result in the end.

PS: A fifth loop equation will be redundant. Not wrong but useless.
 
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I would phrase that differently. There are always four distinct paths. There are many sets thereof: all will lead to the same result.
 
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As long as each loop has something unique that is not in the others, and all parts are included in some loop, it will work out. That means you will have 4 independent (not redundant) equations that describe the entire system. The solution will be the same.
 
Edy56 said:
Please only respond if you know the node voltage method.
One tip about using KVL is to always choose your loops in one direction (I prefer clockwise myself). It will help to avoid making errors when writing the equations.

It's similar when using KCL -- I always write my node equations with the current *leaving* the node.
 
hutchphd said:
I would phrase that differently. There are always four distinct paths. There are many sets thereof: all will lead to the same result.
Yes. The word unique is completely wrong. There are lots of unique loops, much more than four (10, I think). But only 4 (any 4) are independent.
 
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