Confused as to how to simplify this circuit

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves analyzing a circuit with resistances arranged in squares, where the goal is to find the equivalent resistance between two points. The circuit configuration includes both series and parallel arrangements of resistors, and symmetry is suggested as a method to simplify the analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of symmetry to simplify the circuit, questioning the influence of certain resistors on the overall potential difference. There are attempts to identify equipotential points and to analyze resistor pairs in terms of series and parallel combinations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into how to approach the simplification of the circuit. Some guidance has been offered regarding the removal of certain resistors based on symmetry, and there are multiple interpretations being explored regarding the connections and configurations of the resistors.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information available for analysis. There is an emphasis on understanding the relationships between the resistors and their configurations without arriving at a final solution.

Potatochip911
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Homework Statement


circuit.png

The sides of the biggest square have resistance ##R## and length ##L## (the amount of resistance in the wire is equal to the length), the smaller square is placed so that it's corners intersect midway through the sides of the larger square. Find the resistance between points X and Y

Homework Equations


Parallel: ##\frac{1}{R_{eq}}=\frac{1}{R_1}+\frac{1}{R_2}+\cdots+\frac{1}{R_n}##
Series: ##R_{eq}=R_1+R_2+\cdots R_n##

The Attempt at a Solution



To start off I can see that at the top and bottom of the circuit the L/2 sections are in series so they add together giving L and then this is in parallel with the ##\frac{L}{\sqrt{2}}## section of the square. Then the equivalent resistance from that is $$\frac{1}{R_{eq}}=\frac{1}{R}+\frac{\sqrt{2}}{R}$$, i.e. $$R_{eq}=\frac{R}{1+\sqrt{2}}$$

Then I obtain the following circuit:

circuit2.png


At this point I'm currently stuck as I'm not sure how to simplify it further.
 
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Use symmetry. Connect a battery to the points X and Y. As the circuit is symmetric to the XY axis, the current from X to A must be the same as from X to B. So The potential drops by the same value from X to A as from X to B. The potential of A is the same as the potential of B, there is no potential difference between A and B, so you can remove the resistor AB, it does not influence the other currents and voltages. Do the same at points C and D, and calculate the resistance of the new circuit.

symres.png
 
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ehild said:
Use symmetry. Connect a battery to the points X and Y. As the circuit is symmetric to the XY axis, the current from X to A must be the same as from X to B. So The potential drops by the same value from X to A as from X to B. The potential of A is the same as the potential of B, there is no potential difference between A and B, so you can remove the resistor AB, it does not influence the other currents and voltages. Do the same at points C and D, and calculate the resistance of the new circuit.

Okay I removed those resistors and then I found the total resistance for the entire circuit to be ##R_{T}=R(\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{2+2\sqrt{2}})##

I'm trying to calculate the total resistance with another cube inside of it now, i.e.

circuits3.png

So we have ##V_a=V_b## and ##V_h=V_i## which allows me to obtain the following circuit:

circuits4.png


And I'm once again stuck as to how I should simplify this. I'm not sure how to deal with the diamond of resistors since they are also connected to the resistor at the top/bottom of the box they're enclosed in.
 
What do you think about the resistor pairs
af-fh and bg-gj?
proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.org%2F5wh56dkq1%2Fcircuits3.png
 
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squareres.png

Find more equipotential points. You can connect them with a zero-resistance wire, so they become a single node in the circuit. The colored lines represent such nodes. All four resistors between the blue and green lines are connected - how? and so are those between the green and red lines.
 
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cnh1995 said:
What do you think about the resistor pairs
af-fh and bg-gj?
proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.org%2F5wh56dkq1%2Fcircuits3.png

They're in series so they add

ehild said:
View attachment 95124
Find more equipotential points. You can connect them with a zero-resistance wire, so they become a single node in the circuit. The colored lines represent such nodes. All four resistors between the blue and green lines are connected - how? and so are those between the green and red lines.

Ok, I've thought quite a bit about how exactly these resistors are connected and I've come to the conclusion that I should split up the top and bottom resistor in the blue-green node rectangle into two resistors with half of the original resistance. (also I've placed a R/2 resistor at the front to represent the R/2 resistors in parallel at the very start and very end of the circuit).

circuits5.png

In this case ##R_1## is half of the parallel combination af-fh & ah which gives ##R_1=\frac{1}{2}\frac{R}{1+\sqrt{2}}=\frac{R}{2+2\sqrt{2}}## and by symmetry ##R_1=R_3##, from trig the resistance of cd/ce is R/2 and since they're in parallel this gives R/4 for their combination which I've assigned as ##R_2## (the resistor in the middle). Since these resistors are all in parallel and it's the same resistors in parallel twice the resistance from the parallel combination is:
$$\frac{1}{R_{||}}=\frac{2(2+\sqrt{2})}{R}+\frac{4}{R}\Rightarrow R_{||}=\frac{R}{8+4\sqrt{2}}$$

Therefore the total resistance is ##R_{T}=\frac{R}{2}+\frac{R}{8+4\sqrt{2}}##, is this correct?
 
Potatochip911 said:
Therefore the total resistance is ##R_{T}=\frac{R}{2}+\frac{R}{8+4\sqrt{2}}##, is this correct?

Yes.
 
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