COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[Vanadium 50]

I called my doctor and "urgent care" centers

Let me get this straight. You called urgent care centers [plural] and you doctor, told them you had difficulty breathing, and they did not say "get in here right away" but instead discussed testing for something for which there is no treatment beyond what they would already do for someone who presented with difficulty breathing? Three different places?

I simply do not believe this.

 

[kyphysics]

One should have called the doctor already with respect to symptoms. It could be COVID-19 (2019-nCoV), or type of influenza presenting similar symptoms.

Thanks for sharing, Astronuc. I've been keeping close watch. I'll make the call tomorrow.

It could also be dyhration + exhaustion + HEAVY caffeine use in my case. I once was driving in the summer time and suddenly got so weak that I felt myself barely able to have energy to keep the steering wheel steady. An urgent care center was literally a few feet from me, as I was at the stoplight right beside it. I immediately pulled in and collapsed on their floor. They had staff all gather around me and place me in a bed. Did all sorts of tests and found it was simple dehydration.

I got a few IV bags of fluids pumped into me and able to leave same day.

I had had: a.) diarrhea the past few days + b.) lots of soda (caffeine - which is a diuretic that makes you urinate) + c.) in 95 degree hot summer weather. That combo made me so weak and dehydrated that I collapsed.

Slight similarities from then and now, except for my cough and shortness of breath. I did have diarrhea too earlier this week and have also been exhausted and on a caffeine binge (vicious cycle, as I take more caffeine the more tired I am)...so that's all on my mind. I could also be dehydrated (I have gatorade and water I'll be taking) + sleepless exhaustion + common cold cough.

I'll make the call tomorrow whether to go in or not. Problem is, I doubt they'd send me to E.R. for COVID-19 testing, b/c I don't fit their guidelines per my previous post. I could still get flu treatment, though, if I really have it.

OK, take care, and make sure you call your doctor back if you need to.

Thanks.

Different topic: What is everyone doing with their free time with so many cities on shut down mode?

I personally have 2 months worth of food/supplies stocked. Work email said no work for at least two weeks (have to monitor to see if that gets extended).

I have no plans to leave home. I have DVDs I can watch. Internet surfing. I don't plan to meet up with anyone or go out at all during this time. No eating out, no sports/gym...nothing.

 

[bhobba]

I posted a link to a 'nice' story in the Australian newspaper about the UQ efforts to develop a vaccine. Unfortunately its behind paywall but you may be able to see it or find it by searching 'Coronavirus: Three wise men crack the code, now to save the world'

Anyway what follows are what I consider the highlights.

The plan was for the UQ team to conduct a “stress test” next year of the new molecular clamp technology they developed to show it could produce a vaccine for an emergent pandemic agent within 16 weeks.

Instead, COVID-19 plunged the researchers and their augmented staff of 20 into an exhausting, real-world test of the fledgling technology.

Vials of frozen Chinese hamster ovary cells seeded with the candidate vaccine have been sent to the CSIRO’s Clayton vaccine-making plant in Melbourne to pave the way for scaled-up production, while Big Pharma companies including Australia’s CSL-Seqirus and British multinational GlaxoSmithKline are on-board, offering their expertise.

Another group of scientists at the Doherty Institute was plotting antibody responses to the vaccine and identifying potential human immune markers to confirm its effectiveness, under the partnership between the University of Melbourne, University of Queensland and the CSIRO.

Further animal testing involving live Coronavirus would be conducted at CSIRO’s Laboratory outside Geelong. The first results from the lab mice at UQ are due next week.

Scientists in China, Israel and the US are also scrambling to produce a vaccine, with American company and CEPI beneficiary Moderna Therapeutics considered to be best placed to deliver.

While emphasizing it was not a race - “we are keen for everyone to work on this and the prize is a viable vaccine, not who gets there first,” Professor Young said - the gains made by Moderna were early ones using a different process to target viral spike proteins with synthetic messenger RNA.

“With us, having optimized the protein process, we think we are in a better stage in terms of the vaccine-induced immune response"

Professor Munro said the science of developing the vaccine was nearly complete, and the question was now how to get the drug into production. This would cost between $20m and $30m.

“We would love to be able to do all the manufacturing here in Australia, to make the vaccine here, but that is going to be very, very difficult,” he said. “That whole sector has been eroded … even though companies like CSL-Seqirus have great manufacturing capabilities. We would just love to see more of that.”

Thanks
Bill

 

[Vanadium 50]

Bayes Theorem and testing:

There has been a cry on this thread for "more tests!". Since there is no specific treatment for coronavirus, there is no benefit to individuals to get tested. It is purely an epidemiological tool. Suppose instead of just testing people who we have reason to be more likely to be exposed (a "Bayesean prior") we had the ability to test all 320M people in the US. Further suppose the prevalence is 10x higher than we think it is, and that the test is 99% accurate (the upper end of a home pregnancy test). What fraction of people who test positive actually have coronavirius?

Crunching the numbers, 0.69%. 99.3% of those who test positive actually don't have it, and any studies trying to track where people are coming and going will be overwhelmed by noise.

OK, so how many people will need to be infected for the sample of positive testees to be half infected and half healthy? It would have to be 1400x larger than what we think it is.

 

[bhobba]

Since there is no specific treatment for coronavirus, there is no benefit to individuals to get tested.

I thought the treatment was isolation so as not to infect others and monitoring to pick up complications that may occur as early as possible.

Thanks
Bill

 

[kyphysics]

Incidentally, I was Googling stuff related to muscle weakness and saw that fear/anxiety can CAUSE muscle weakness too.

*Google this to see.*

If one is FEARFUL of COVID19 and you're all anxious and emotionally stressed, that can cause ONE its SYMPTOMS (which is muscle weakness). And the more weakness you feel in your muscles, the more fearful you might get. And round and round we go in the vicious cycle.

Just something to be aware of! WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE IS FEAR - NOT COVID19.

(possibly the same with gastro-intestinal issues - the more fear/anxiety you have, the more your stomach churns and feels upset...not to say you should not be cautious and take serious the symptoms, but just that you shouldn't be so fearful that you cause the symptoms too, LOL. And do try to be aware that fear/anxiety can do this.)

 

[DennisN]

If one is FEARFUL of COVID19 and you're all anxious and emotionally stressed

Different topic: What is everyone doing with their free time with so many cities on shut down mode?

Here is an excellent video on that topic I watched yesterday:

Managing anxiety and uncertainty during the Coronavirus pandemic
(by DoctorRamani, clinical psychologist, Mar 13, 2020)
(the first ten minutes is about this topic, the rest is about other topics)

 

[kadiot]

I thought the treatment was isolation so as not to infect others and monitoring to pick up complications that may occur as early as possible.

Thanks
Bill

I agree. No test, no case. No case, no isolation.

 

[Astronuc]

I thought the treatment was isolation so as not to infect others and monitoring to pick up complications that may occur as early as possible.

Isolation is not 'treatment' in the sense to which V50 referred. 'Treatment' normally means medication (e.g., anti-viral, . . . ), fluids, rest, anti-inflammatories, . . . As far as I know, there is no medication for 2019-nCoV comparable to Tamiflu for influenza.

Isolation is a practice to prevent further spread of infection. Basic sanitation procedures, e.g., washing hands, wearing a mask, are another way of preventing spread of the disease.

If one has symptoms, avoid others. However, one may be infected and be infectious before onset of symptoms, or one could have contact with the virus and carry the virus on one's hands, face or in one's mouth, throat or lungs, before onset of infection and symptoms. Hence, isolation/quarantine is the only effective method to prevent continued transmission of the virus.

 

[kadiot]

Isolation is not 'treatment' in the sense to which V50 referred. 'Treatment' normally means medication (e.g., anti-viral, . . . ), fluids, rest, anti-inflammatories, . . . As far as I know, there is no medication for 2019-nCoV comparable to Tamiflu for influenza.

Isolation is a practice to prevent further spread of infection. Basic sanitation procedures, e.g., washing hands, wearing a mask, are another way of preventing spread of the disease.

If one has symptoms, avoid others. However, one may be infected and be infectious before onset of symptoms, or one could have contact with the virus and carry the virus on one's hands, face or in one's mouth, throat or lungs, before onset of infection and symptoms. Hence, isolation/quarantine is the only effective method to prevent continued transmission of the virus.

I agree. I think he meant isolation for treatment.

QUARANTINE VS ISOLATION

Quarantine is for those who have been exposed to the disease but are not ill.

Isolation is the separation of persons who have a specific infectious illness.

(These terms do differ in definition, but they are often used synonymously in the media.)

 

[WWGD]

My son had to use an ambulance and after his insurance paid whatever IT paid, he was stuck with a bill for $1,500 and I've heard of worse. Check with your insurance company.

I heard many people carry Dnr ( Do not resuscitate) cards or similar because they prefer to risk death or illness than financial ruin.

 

[Keith_McClary]

Some comedy to lighten things up a bit

 

[WWGD]

This seems like a good up to date source of data:
worldometers.info/corona

 

[phinds]

This seems like a good up to date source of data:
worldometers.info/corona

and here is the ACTUAL link as a clickable link: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Unfortunately the one critical statistic that they don't have, that makes the statistics they DO have questionable, is the number of tests per country.

 

[WWGD]

Yes, I don't know why it was not clickable.

 

[Astronuc]

CDC recommends washing hands with soap and water whenever possible because handwashing reduces the amounts of all types of germs and chemicals on hands. But if soap and water are not available, using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol can help you avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others. The guidance for effective handwashing and use of hand sanitizer in community settings was developed based on data from a number of studies.
https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html

One can make one's own hand sanitizer. Alcohol can be bought at supermakets and pharmacies, like RiteAid or Walgreens in the US, or equivalent in other nations.

 

[DennisN]

It could also be dyhration + exhaustion + HEAVY caffeine use in my case.

I had had: a.) diarrhea the past few days + b.) lots of soda (caffeine - which is a diuretic that makes you urinate) + c.) in 95 degree hot summer weather. That combo made me so weak and dehydrated that I collapsed.

I did have diarrhea too earlier this week and have also been exhausted and on a caffeine binge (vicious cycle, as I take more caffeine the more tired I am)...so that's all on my mind.

Why are you drinking so much coffee?
Let me repeat that:
Why are you drinking so much coffee?

Here are some very common side effects of drinking too much coffee:

• Anxiety (because coffee stimulates the sympathetic nervous system which is responsible for our "fight-or flight" response)
• Dehydration
• Diarrhea
• Difficulty sleeping

(and I know this very well from personal experience, so I don't blame you )

If I were you, I would cut down on the coffee!

Nowadays, I personally drink only one or two cups of coffee and AFTER I have eaten breakfast.
At other times, I only drink decaffinated coffee. This has been very, very helpful for me personally.

Edit: I removed "drastically" from this post due to the post by @Rive below.

 

[Rive]

If I were you, I would drastically cut down on the coffee!

Just be careful.
I got the 'muscle pain' part. It was no fun.

 

[DennisN]

Just be careful.
I got the 'muscle pain' part. It was no fun.

Good point! It was long ago now that I cut down on coffee, so I don't remember if I got side effects or not from cutting down on it.

 

[Rive]

It's the 'drastic' part what goes that way. Just one cup was able to cure it within half a day when I finally figured out what is it about.

Ps.: I would also throw in heart rhythm problems as side effect of excess caffeine consumption.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Long term excessive caffeine consumption may lead to ideopathic osteoporosis, i.e., a clinical observation -- bone thinning in patient populations that are considered too young to have the problem.

Example: Effects of caffeine on bone and the calcium economy.
link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12204390

 

[kyphysics]

If I were you, I would cut down on the coffee!

Tea and soda mostly. Not much of a coffee drinker.

I am a habitual soda drinker and tea and coffee drinker when I pull all-nighter type stuff. I use it for alertness.

 

[DennisN]

@kyphysics :

And here's a guideline article: Caffeine: How much is too much? (Mayo Clinic)

You may want to cut back if you're drinking more than 4 cups of caffeinated coffee a day (or the equivalent) and you have side effects such as:

• Headache
• Insomnia
• Nervousness
• Irritability
• Frequent urination or inability to control urination
• Fast heartbeat
• Muscle tremors

 

[kyphysics]

Let me add that I think Americans are just not sensitive enough about COVID19. Hong Kong was super sensitive and reacted quickly to try to contain it.

They lived through the nightmare of SARS in 2003, which had a much higher death rate. COVID19 kills less, but seems to spread much faster. Thus, more people get it and it's more about hospitalizations at that point. If it spreads in a densely populated area, there could be more need for beds than available. Without assisted breathing, many could die.

COVID19's death rate is less than SARS, but the numbers contracting it are greater.

Asians seemed rightfully and properly concerned. Here, in the U.S., I sense lots of people kind of think it's a whimpy flu only and don't care and seem to have been (at least, until very recently) carrying about publicly as if it weren't an issue at all.

Americans just have never had such an epidemic hit them in recent memory. And, on top of that, we may not have the right numbers by a long shot, given the lack of testing in the U.S.
Mod note: some text with a political slant now removed.

 

[DennisN]

Tea and soda mostly. Not much of a coffee drinker.

Ok. Then you can read my posts as "caffeine" instead of "coffee".

 

[DennisN]

Americans just have never had such an epidemic hit them in recent memory.

We have the same situation here in Sweden. Also, we haven't been in a war since 1814 (!).

 

[jbriggs444]

I had had: a.) diarrhea the past few days + b.) lots of soda (caffeine - which is a diuretic that makes you urinate) + c.) in 95 degree hot summer weather. That combo made me so weak and dehydrated that I collapsed.

Hyponatremia is no joke. One hopes that they checked your electrolytes before replenishing. Central pontine myelinolysis is even less of a joke. [My wife was just discharged this morning after 4 weeks in ICU/hospital/inpatient rehab with that diagnosis. 50% survival rate, supposedly].

 

[Vanadium 50]

I read somewhere

Planning on telling us where?

I'd be very interested in reading how a disease with about a 2% (3% tops) mortality rate can manage to kill 5% of the population.

 

[DennisN]

Hyponatremia is no joke.

No, it definitely isn't.
A couple of years ago I went to the emergency department due to feeling dizzy and confused and having some tremor. I was diagnosed as having hyponatremia and was hospitalized a couple of days.

It was during a heat wave when I had been drinking way too much water, which messed up the electrolyte balance in my body.

 

[kyphysics]

Hyponatremia is no joke. One hopes that they checked your electrolytes before replenishing. Central pontine myelinolysis is even less of a joke. [My wife was just discharged this morning after 4 weeks in ICU/hospital/inpatient rehab with that diagnosis. 50% survival rate, supposedly].

Good to hear your wife on teh good side of recovery, jb!

I actually didn't know the name of those conditions, but am glad you pointed them out.

Also, to be clear, my condition above from was from several years ago. I was trying to compare/contrast that incident with what I've felt recently. ...Just in case that wasn't clear.

But, your bigger point is well taken. Those conditions are just as serious!

The docs gave me several IVs with saline and other "stuff" in them from waht I call. I don't remember everything they gave me - I was half conscious. But, it took several hours and I left later that afternoon/night. It was definitely scary, because I didn't know why I felt so weak that I could barely keep my hands on the steering wheel. It happened rather suddenly.

Maybe to segue back to COVID19 - Does anyone know if the symptoms pop up very suddenly? Do you get like a minor version or one or them first? And, then, gradually get more symptoms and/or stronger versions of the existing one(s)? Or, do you just suddenly feel really bad out of nowhere?