Derivative of a term within a sum

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The original poster seeks to derive the nature of the spherical Bessel and Neumann functions at small values of p, referencing Rodrigues’ formulae and utilizing a Taylor expansion for the Bessel function. They express confusion regarding specific transitions in their work and mention a desire to apply similar reasoning to the Neumann function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the original poster's attempts to recover terms in their derivation, specifically questioning the transitions between steps. Some suggest posting work for additional feedback, while others recommend writing out series terms to clarify understanding.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing guidance on how to approach the algebraic aspects of the problem. There is an acknowledgment of confusion regarding specific terms and transitions, and some participants are exploring different interpretations of the series involved.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of formatting issues and the need for clarity in mathematical expressions, which may impact the understanding of the problem. The original poster also notes a potential issue with terminology in their thread title.

CricK0es
Messages
54
Reaction score
3

Homework Statement


[/B]
From the Rodrigues’ formulae, I want to derive nature of the spherical Bessel and Neumann functions at small values of p.

Homework Equations


[/B]
I'm going to post an image of the Bessel function where we're using a Taylor expansion, which I'm happy with and is as far as I got...

https://pastenow.ru/df043f5dc89214026a759bfd14e301b1
https://imgur.com/a/LmDovch
LmDovch


The Attempt at a Solution



I'm recovering some of the terms, but the jump from line 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 have me confused because I'm not recovering a similar answer.

I need to attempt it for the Neumann function at small p also, but I'm sure that a similar issue will arise and I'd rather fix it here and use the Neumann as practice for my newfound knowledge
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
CricK0es said:
I'm recovering some of the terms, but the jump from line 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 have me confused because I'm not recovering a similar answer.
How about posting your work so far? You may have made a mistake that a pair of fresh eyes might be able to diagnose.
 
CricK0es said:

Homework Statement



From the Rodrigues’ formulae, I want to derive nature of the spherical Bessel and Neumann functions at small values of p.[/B]

Homework Equations



I'm going to post an image of the Bessel function where we're using a Taylor expansion, which I'm happy with and is as far as I got...[/B]

https://pastenow.ru/df043f5dc89214026a759bfd14e301b1
https://imgur.com/a/LmDovch
LmDovch


The Attempt at a Solution



I'm recovering some of the terms, but the jump from line 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 have me confused because I'm not recovering a similar answer.

I need to attempt it for the Neumann function at small p also, but I'm sure that a similar issue will arise and I'd rather fix it here and use the Neumann as practice for my newfound knowledge[/B]
I presume that the word "Derivative" in your title should be changed to some form of the word "derive" as in the context of a "derivation".

Boldface type should only be used for the three headings supplied by the Homework Template and in rare cases for items in your post which need emphasis.
(I realize that it is easy to include text in the supplied headings by mistake .​

Please use either the "Image" icon in the banner heading or the upload button found below - right of the Input Box. (See figure below.)

Box to make Posts(Image).png


As for your Algebra question:
Here is your image displayed:

c49M8Jr.png


So it seems that you want to know why
## (2n)(2n-2)(2n-4) \dots (2n-2\lambda +2) ##​
is equal to
## \dfrac {2^n (n!)} {(n-\lambda)!} ##​
Right?

Actually, it looks to me as if that last expression should be ## \dfrac {2^\lambda (n!)} {(n-\lambda)!} ## .

Try expanding ## \dfrac { (n!)} {(n-\lambda)!} ## and see what you get.

Added in Edit :

How many terms are in ## (2n) ,~ (2n-2),~(2n-4),~ \dots ,~ (2n-2\lambda +2) ~?##

(& fixed a typo)
 

Attachments

  • Box to make Posts(Image).png
    Box to make Posts(Image).png
    6 KB · Views: 628
  • c49M8Jr.png
    c49M8Jr.png
    19.7 KB · Views: 770
Last edited:
upload_2019-2-15_14-39-49.png


I can't see where the (2n)(2n-2)... term is coming from, and then from the solutions, I don't see how we go from line 2 to 3.

So, this final question has not gone well... at all ha! So there's some very key thing in my understanding that I'm missing here, as my original attempt above indicates
 

Attachments

  • upload_2019-2-15_14-39-49.png
    upload_2019-2-15_14-39-49.png
    82.2 KB · Views: 602
CricK0es said:
I can't see where the (2n)(2n-2)... term is coming from ...
If series confuse you, I recommend that you write out a few terms and see how things go together.

The series is ##S(\rho)=a_0+a_2\rho^2+a_4\rho^4+\cdots+a_{2n-2}\rho^{2n-2}+ a_{2n}\rho^{2n}+\cdots##
For ##\lambda=1##,$$\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial S(\rho)}{\partial \rho}=\frac{1}{\rho}(2a_2\rho^1+4a_4\rho^3+\cdots+(2n-2)a_{2n-2}\rho^{2n-2-1}+ 2na_{2n}\rho^{2n-1}+\cdots)\\=2a_2\rho^0+4a_4\rho^2+\cdots+(2n-2)a_{2n-2}\rho^{2n-4}+ 2na_{2n}\rho^{2n-2}+\cdots$$For ##\lambda=2##, take the first derivative of the above and divide by another ##\rho## because you have already divided by one when you did ##\lambda=1##. Thus,
$$\frac{1}{\rho^2}\frac{\partial^2 S(\rho)}{\partial \rho^2}=4\cdot 2a_4\rho^0+\cdots+(2n-2)(2n-4)a_{2n-2}\rho^{2n-6}+ 2n(2n-2)a_{2n}\rho^{2n-4}+\cdots$$See how it works? If not, do ##\lambda=3## in the same manner.
 
Last edited:
I realized I forgot to say thank you! I got it sorted!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K