Deriving motion equations for two blocks on a rough table

In summary, Two small blocks, each of mass m, are connected by a string of constant length 4h and negligible mass. Block A is placed on a very rough tabletop as shown below, and block B hangs over the edge of the table. The tabletop is a distance 2h above the floor. Block A is then released from rest at a distance h above the floor at time t = 0 and the system begins to move. The coefficient of kinetic friction is μk. The sum of all forces can be represented by ΣF = ma, and the acceleration of block B is given by a = g(MB-μkMA)/(MB+MA). When the two masses are equal, the acceleration simplifies to a
  • #1
TonyV
Two small blocks, each of mass m, are connected by a string of constant length 4h and negligible mass. Block A is placed on a very rough tabletop as shown below, and block B hangs over the edge of the table. The tabletop is a distance 2h above the floor. Block A is then released from rest at a distance h above the floor at time t = 0 and the system begins to move. The coefficient of kinetic friction is μk.
Express all algebraic answers in terms of μk, h, m1, m2, , and g.
upload_2017-10-21_21-11-15.png

A) Write equations for the sum of forces in both directions.
From what I understand, the sum of all forces would be ΣF = (sum of forces) = ma.

B) Derive an equation for the acceleration of block B as it descends.
I thoughtlessly did this without accounting for friction and ended up with g/2. I did a similar problem for homework and was used that information to come up with this equation for acceleration... However, I am unsure of whether or not I am on the right path.

upload_2017-10-21_21-22-36.png


I would end up with variables canceling out in the final equation, correct??

C) Block B strikes the floor and does not bounce. Determine the time t at which block B strikes the floor.
For this I ended up with 2√h/g. However, since I got this equation by substituting acceleration with the equation from the previous step (g/2) in h=½at^2. I am unsure of how to proceed until I am certain of what I need to use for acceleration to solve for time.

I am grateful for any assistance and/or suggestions. I love physics but still have much to learn! However, I want to understand as much as possible.
:smile:
 

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  • #2
There is a coefficient of friction given. You can't neglect friction.
 
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  • #3
TonyV said:
unsure of how to proceed until I am certain of what I need to use for acceleration to solve for time.
Your second attempt at acceleration was correct. It is not unusual that some variables cancel out. In the present case, would you expect the acceleration or time to be different if both masses were doubled?
 
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  • #4
haruspex said:
Your second attempt at acceleration was correct. It is not unusual that some variables cancel out. In the present case, would you expect the acceleration or time to be different if both masses were doubled?

Thank you... In this particular case no. At least I am pretty sure it is irrelevant in this case. So in the equation for a, both of my mass variables would cancel out? That would leave me with g(-μk)
 
  • #5
mfb said:
There is a coefficient of friction given. You can't neglect friction.
The previous problem had negligible friction... This is why it's important to read the entire problem before attempting to solve.
 
  • #6
TonyV said:
That would leave me with g(-μk)
No. Starting with the last equation in the image you posted, and setting the two masses equal, please post your steps.
 
  • #7
Okay, here is what I have...
 

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  • #8
TonyV said:
Okay, here is what I have...
That's what you posted before, but you know the two masses are equal, so what does it simplify to?
 
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  • #9
haruspex said:
That's what you posted before, but you know the two masses are equal, so what does it simplify to?
2m
 
  • #10
TonyV said:
2m
Eh?
No. Take the final expression in the image you posted and use the fact that the two masses are equal. (You are told this.). What does that expression then simplify to?
 
  • #11
haruspex said:
Eh?
No. Take the final expression in the image you posted and use the fact that the two masses are equal. (You are told this.). What does that expression then simplify to?
Sorry, been a long week. Midterms. I know it's probably right in front of my face, obvious but I'm not seeing much else... Unless it cancels out...
 
  • #12
TonyV said:
Sorry, been a long week. Midterms. I know it's probably right in front of my face, obvious but I'm not seeing much else... Unless it cancels out...
I cannot understand your difficulty. You had ##a=g\frac{M_B-\mu_kM_A}{M_B+M_A}##. Just replace each MA and MB with m and simplify.
 

What are the equations for calculating the motion of two blocks on a rough table?

The equations for calculating the motion of two blocks on a rough table depend on the variables involved, such as the masses of the blocks, the coefficients of friction, and the external forces acting on the blocks. Generally, the equations involve using Newton's second law and the equations for frictional force to determine the acceleration of the blocks.

How do the coefficients of friction affect the motion of the blocks on a rough table?

The coefficients of friction determine the amount of resistance to motion between the blocks and the table. A higher coefficient of friction means there will be more frictional force acting on the blocks, which will result in slower motion. In contrast, a lower coefficient of friction will result in less frictional force and faster motion.

What is the role of external forces in the motion of the blocks on a rough table?

External forces, such as applied forces or forces due to gravity, can affect the motion of the blocks on a rough table. These forces can either accelerate or decelerate the blocks, depending on their direction and magnitude. In order to accurately calculate the motion of the blocks, these external forces must be taken into account.

Can the motion equations for two blocks on a rough table be used for any shape or size of blocks?

Yes, the motion equations for two blocks on a rough table can be used for any shape or size of blocks, as long as the variables involved are known. The mass and coefficients of friction may differ for different shapes and sizes of blocks, but the equations themselves will still apply.

How can the motion of the blocks on a rough table be affected by the surface of the table?

The roughness or smoothness of the table's surface can affect the motion of the blocks by altering the coefficient of friction. A rougher surface will typically have a higher coefficient of friction, resulting in slower motion, while a smoother surface will have a lower coefficient of friction and faster motion. The surface of the table can also affect the external forces acting on the blocks, such as if the surface is inclined or has obstacles that may change the direction of motion.

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