Does the Man Always Have to Pay for the First Date?

[GladScientist]

I'm very inexperienced with dating. I'm going out tomorrow with a girl I met recently. I plan on paying for everything, but if she offers to pay, should I disagree with her and say that I will pay it? Or should I let her pay for it if she offers?

I don't think it matters that much, but I want to avoid giving off the wrong signs (whatever they may be).

 

[Dickfore]

You should not pay. She might think you want to buy her for some favors in return and that is insulting. You should insist on everyone paying for their own from the very beginning.

 

[BobG]

The person that asked for the date (and probably chose the activity) should pay, regardless of which sex.

 

[GladScientist]

Oh, also note that I'm 18.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Generally the male is expected to pay. If she brings up paying she will likely be expecting you to tell her not to worry about it. If she is insistent then acquiesce. This is just from my experience. Women that I have dated and been friends with have rarely expressed a problem with men paying and have frequently expressed issues with men not paying. One of my exes even said that she had in the past brought female friends with her on dates to see if her date would pay for them as well. They got a failing grade if they did not. I had another ex who said that was just ridiculous and she would not expect such a thing from me, then she brought a friend with us on a date and was annoyed when I took issue with having to pay for her friend.

Any way, things may be different now.

 

[BobG]

Generally the male is expected to pay. If she brings up paying she will likely be expecting you to tell her not to worry about it. If she is insistent then acquiesce. This is just from my experience. Women that I have dated and been friends with have rarely expressed a problem with men paying and have frequently expressed issues with men not paying. One of my exes even said that she had in the past brought female friends with her on dates to see if her date would pay for them as well. They got a failing grade if they did not. I had another ex who said that was just ridiculous and she would not expect such a thing from me, then she brought a friend with us on a date and was annoyed when I took issue with having to pay for her friend.

Any way, things may be different now.

Things aren't necessarily different time-wise. Things are different based on the life goals of the women you date.

Women that want to be independent and have the career of their own that would provide that independence wouldn't be looking for a man that was subtly suggesting he wanted full control of the relationship by how he handled the finances of dating.

Women that want to be the stay at home mom will be looking for a man that's willing to take full responsibility for earning the family's money and how he handles the expenses of dating will reflect that. And I take it that while she's not paying for dates, she is inviting the man for home cooked meals.

Women that are inviting you to pay not only for them, but for their friends as well are probably looking for something a bit more than the man that will assume all responsibility for earning the money. They're looking for someone earning enough money that they see the unexpected additional expense of their date's friends as trivial. They're looking for the man that will provide them the ability to be the "stay at home mom" that has a nanny so she can spend her days at the country club.

Given that the OP is 18, looking for someone that will dedicate their life to raising his kids might be what he's looking for. Her being financially dependent on him would at least reduce the chances of her later divorcing him and moving away with his kids.

Or he might prefer a more balanced relationship, hopefully realizing more balanced would reflect more than just the financial relationship. In other words, when one of the kids are sick, has a doctor's/dentist's appointment, or someone has to meet with the principal/teacher, etc, it will sometimes be him that has to call off work.

Just depends on what a person is looking for (but if he's looking for the third type, the gold-digger type, he'd better check on how well her mom aged over the years).

 

[Topher925]

Just pay for everything, you'll have yourself a lot of headaches later.

 

[EkaterinaAvd]

Different girls have different sights on it. I would expect man to pay if he is much richer than I am. But if I still say "I want to pay for myself" - he should allow. If he is poorer and I know it's tough for him to pay and he doesn't allow me to pay for myself - I probably wouldn't like him.

 

[BobG]

In about 80% of married couple families, both parents work. Presuming dating should be kind of a screening to find someone compatible to raise a family, the old customs that date back to the 60's (when only 35% of married families were dual income families) are obsolete. Dating customs should provide some indication of how the two people plan to live their future life.

(That also means that fathers more equally share the load of raising the kids nowadays. In the case of divorce, it's no longer a given that the mother gets custody while the father pays child support and visits once in a while.)

(Strangely, families ability to save has decreased in spite of usually having two incomes. Obviously, part of that is the need for two cars, day care, etc, but having two incomes means families usually feel more confident in spending, since there will still be some income coming in even if one loses their job.)

 

[daveyrocket]

If I go out with a woman I expect her to pay her own way, or at least make an effort to show that she's willing to. But I'm not looking for a woman to be a housewife. I'd be extremely turned off by a woman who brought her friends on a date and expected me to pay for them too, unless it was clear I'd get to sleep with all of them.

Anyway, a better choice IMHO is to make your first dates be doing things which cost little to nothing. On my first date with my current girlfriend, we went to a free concert. Second date was a stroll along the river to find a place on the bank to sit down with a 6-pack of beer. Third date we went to a park.

Personally, I don't like the "whomever asks, pays" rule. For one, you would never do that with your friends, and two, even though it sounds like it is trying to be equal, everyone knows that the man does the asking the majority of the time during the courtship phase of the relationship. So it ends up being just that the man pays most of the time.

 

[turbo]

IMO, there should be no gender-based rule regarding who pays the tab. This goes for same-sex couples (obviously!) and should be the norm for heterosexual couples.

Think about societal norms. If I invite you over for burgers and beers, I expect to supply everything. If you have very expensive tastes and only drink hard-to-find imported beers, it is reasonable for you to supply those. If I invite you to go to a movie, I expect that I'll be buying your ticket. If you want a $10 tub of popcorn, it would natural for you to step up and pay for that yourself unless I insist on paying for that too. This is guy-to-guy socializing. Does socializing with a female entail some radically different standard, like "the guy pays for everything"? IMO, it shouldn't. If a girl invites you to go to a water park with her and her friends, she should be willing to pay your way. In return, maybe you could buy some snacks or a light lunch. If she makes it clear that the water-park date is Dutch, snacks, etc should be Dutch, too.

 

[lisab]

Generally the male is expected to pay. If she brings up paying she will likely be expecting you to tell her not to worry about it. If she is insistent then acquiesce. This is just from my experience. Women that I have dated and been friends with have rarely expressed a problem with men paying and have frequently expressed issues with men not paying. One of my exes even said that she had in the past brought female friends with her on dates to see if her date would pay for them as well. They got a failing grade if they did not. I had another ex who said that was just ridiculous and she would not expect such a thing from me, then she brought a friend with us on a date and was annoyed when I took issue with having to pay for her friend.

Any way, things may be different now.

Wow, I've never heard of bringing friends along on a date! And to do so, then expect my date to pay their way...that's simply absurd to me.

 

[turbo]

Wow, I've never heard of bringing friends along on a date! And to do so, then expect my date to pay their way...that's simply absurd to me.

That's pretty nuts. "Oh Laurie, Mr. X is taking me out to Ruth's Chris Steak House on Friday." "Why don't you come along?" If some woman sprung that kind of trap on me, I'd leave her at home and go enjoy the evening by myself.

 

[BobG]

Wow, I've never heard of bringing friends along on a date! And to do so, then expect my date to pay their way...that's simply absurd to me.

That's pretty nuts. "Oh Laurie, Mr. X is taking me out to Ruth's Chris Steak House on Friday." "Why don't you come along?" If some woman sprung that kind of trap on me, I'd leave her at home and go enjoy the evening by myself.

Could be worse. She could bring her boyfriend and ask her date to pay for him, too.

 

[FlexGunship]

I'm very inexperienced with dating. I'm going out tomorrow with a girl I met recently. I plan on paying for everything, but if she offers to pay, should I disagree with her and say that I will pay it? Or should I let her pay for it if she offers?

I don't think it matters that much, but I want to avoid giving off the wrong signs (whatever they may be).

Keep it simple. Chivalry isn't dead. If you identify with traditional roles in a relationship, then insist on paying. Sneak your card out and tuck it under your leg, when the bill arrives pay it nonchalantly, don't make a big deal out of it; don't even look at the price. You're not trying to show off, you're trying to encourage your date to relax.

9 times out of 10, she'll offer to split it, but give up quickly and just thank you. When she thanks you, just say something like: "Oh, please, a small price to pay for good company. I'm getting the better deal here, you know." If she presses you, then tell her she can leave the tip. If this comes up, I have a favorite trick which is always good for a laugh.

You: "Well, okay, how about you pick up the tip?"
Date: "Yeah, okay! How much should I leave?"
You: "Hmm, let's see... 20% of $480 is... uh..."
Date: "What?!"
You: "Kidding, relax. Just leave a ten."

Fundamentally, I think it's biological. Women like to feel secure with a man. If you end up arguing or fumbling over how to divide the bill, she's going to feel less relaxed and less secure. Take a stand.

 

[DaveC426913]

Gender doesn't matter. You're not a guy offering to pay for a girl; you're a person interested in another person and wanting to treat them.

Pay.

If she gives you a hard time about it, negotiate. How you negotiate is an opportunity for bonding the relationship.

 

[BobG]

You should be prepared for the reality of first dates, as well. Sometimes you'll realize very quickly that you made a mistake in asking her out on a date.

Which leads to plan B for handling the check. If it turns out that you wish you hadn't ever asked her out halfway through the meal, you still salvage something out of the evening. When you see the waiter/waitress bringing the check, excuse yourself to use the restroom. Then sneak out the front door and drive away.

At least you won't get stuck paying the check on a date you wish you'd never gone on.

Of course, you did have the caveat that you didn't want to send the wrong sign, so I guess the viability of this option depends on what you meant by that.

 

[FlexGunship]

When you see the waiter/waitress bringing the check, excuse yourself to use the restroom. Then sneak out the front door and drive away.

This works best if you picked her up at her house and were responsible for returning her home afterwards.

 

[BobG]

This works best if you picked her up at her house and were responsible for returning her home afterwards.

This is true. Having her ram your MiniCooper broadside with her Ford Expedition would definitely ruin your evening.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

That's pretty nuts. "Oh Laurie, Mr. X is taking me out to Ruth's Chris Steak House on Friday." "Why don't you come along?" If some woman sprung that kind of trap on me, I'd leave her at home and go enjoy the evening by myself.

In the situation where it actually did happen it wasn't just a date, she was my girlfriend, and she wanted to take her friend out to cheer her up because she was really depressed so she invited her to come out with us. I knew and liked her friend. I was low on cash though and when I mentioned my concern about money, away from her friend, my girlfriend became upset with me.

Otherwise I have known multiple women to bring friends on dates to meet guys for drinks and that sort of thing. Its like having back-up on hand. In one particular instance her friend was the excuse for being out at the bar as she had a boyfriend and was meeting with another man.

 

[BobG]

I was low on cash though and when I mentioned my concern about money, away from her friend, my girlfriend became upset with me.

Really. So if the two of you did end up in a life long relationship, her preferred solution to any money problems would be for you to just make more money? Or would it be for you just to borrow more money?

Awkward situations are sometimes the best situations of all since they reveal some things about a person that they might not advertise.

I think you're lucky she's an ex.

 

[Drakkith]

As I haven't seen these suggestions:

A. What do YOU want? Do you want a women who expects you to pay or one that will willingly pay for herself? If you don't want to pay for both of you, then don't! If you don't want to, but do so anyways because she expects it, how is that beneficial to a relationship??

B. Ask her what she expects from you. Something like "Do you feel that the man should pay or that both people should pay for themselves?". Better to know now than to get in a situation later.

 

[DaveC426913]

To reiterate.

This could go two ways:

It could be a power struggle - what's expected from her versus what's expected from you, and who "wins".

or

It could simply be a matter of character. You are responsible only for your own actions, no one else's. What they do is not up to you, and should have no bearing on who you are and thus what you do. If you go to dinner with someone, and you like them, you might like to treat them.

 

[flyingpig]

Use the "oh darn I left my wallet at home" trick. If you are lucky, say "oh no, my keys were in my wallet!" and she might invite you to her home

 

[ArcanaNoir]

Probably the most accurate advice I've seen here so far is from Drakkith, "what do you want". This kind of thing does indicate something about each party that is probably important.

If you want a girl's advice, pay for it! Every time. Let her treat you in other ways. For example, buying tasty steaks and all the fixings to cook a diner for two can cost just as much as dinner at a restaurant.

The odds are that she will appreciate you paying. So if you want to play the odds, pay. A girl who feels like she should pay will tell you so. A girl who feels you should pay would not say this if she has manners, but she may not go out with you again.

 

[turbo]

I have nostalgia for the 60's and early 70's. Women were pretty assertive and creative then, IMO. One December night during a blizzard, I decided not to try to trek to my favorite bar, but went out for a drink or two at a bar under a local motel. I went into the bar, shook off the snow, and put my jacket on the back of a chair. Just then, a tall lady with a baby-face came over and said "Can I sit with you if I buy you a drink?" That sounded like a really great package deal and we hooked up, with what became a long-term co-habitation.

We were together for over a year until she completed her degree, with no commitments or expectations. Even though she was a grad student a few years older than me, and was bound to move on, my parents loved her. It's hard not to like someone so down-to-earth and funny.

I wouldn't put so much emphasis on which gender has to play which role in initial contacts/dates. Just let it roll. To the guys: If a woman about your age (not a cougar) asks you out and wants to pay for your drinks, food, etc, grab her.

 

[Drakkith]

Hah! I wish that would happen to me turbo!

 

[ThomasT]

I'm very inexperienced with dating. I'm going out tomorrow with a girl I met recently. I plan on paying for everything, but if she offers to pay, should I disagree with her and say that I will pay it? Or should I let her pay for it if she offers?

I don't think it matters that much, but I want to avoid giving off the wrong signs (whatever they may be).

If she offers to pay, then I think that means she likes you. If she likes you, and you like her, then it really doesn't matter who pays. But I think it's a good idea to keep that sort of stuff as even as possible. And you will ... if you really like each other. If you don't get that vibe, that feeling from her, and if you don't feel that for her, then let it go and find somebody else. It's really pretty simple. Just keep dating different women until you find that mutual affinity and trust that we all seek. When you find it, then make a commitment to that relationship, and there's a better than even chance that you'll be happy with your decision.

 

[turbo]

Hah! I wish that would happen to me turbo!

I was pretty darned shocked. That was one ice-breaker of an intro line.

 

[Mépris]

I was pretty darned shocked. That was one ice-breaker of an intro line.

I would be as well. I'm usually the one making that kind of effort...

The closest I've gotten to something like that, out of the blue, was at a party. We were outside among a few persons, non-smokers. She randomly came up to me and said something half-assed about going for walk and a cigarette. I looked at her, looked at my drink, looked at her again, took another sip from my drink and looked away. I didn't bother because she wasn't asking for me specifically and any random person would have been enough then. Then again, this could have turned into something else, had I agreed but at the time, that one drink was more appealing.

 

[wasteofo2]

So how did the date go? Did you pay?

In general, the rule with money and romance is to never try to buy someone's affection.

If you want to pay for someone because you've invited them out and see them as your guest, that's fine. But don't try to pay for something in hopes it will make someone like you, it won't, and you're wasting your money and her time.

That being said, a guy who has a lot of money and invites a girl to do something that might be expensive certainly has an advantage. Taking her out to a beautiful place with a view vs. a rundown one doesn't hurt, but if she doesn't like you already it won't make her like you, it'll just make her view you as a wallet she might put up with.

Nice trick to avoid spending money, take girls to beautiful natural places. Take a girl to a mountain top overlooking the vastness of nature. How can she not kiss you?

 

[widereader]

I am a traditional kind of person. Although some women pay the first date, it would be a better decision that the guy does it since men usually do the pursuing.

 

[netgypsy]

I had another ex who said that was just ridiculous and she would not expect such a thing from me, then she brought a friend with us on a date and was annoyed when I took issue with having to pay for her friend.

Read WARNING SIGNS that this person ISN'T THE ONE. (You invite her out to a nice restaurant and she brings a friend. DING DING DING)

Regarding who pays, at 18 a lot depends on how well you know the girl, how expensive her tastes are, how well off you are financially and just your "gut feeling" about whether she's the type who likes a guy to "spoil her" or who wants to get to know you better first.

A family member who has been very happily married forever said her spouse forgot his money on the third date and she had to pay their way in. The first date was a party, so no expense, the second date, he paid their way in because it was a movie but he also spilled a very large ice filled soda in his lap. So sometimes mishaps and things that aren't clear in a relationship tell you a lot about the person.

So you offer to pay or you just automatically pay if a check is brought or if it's a show or something but if she insists in a nice way, you agree. If she gets nasty, first date is last date no matter how much of a babe she is. It's easy to improve your appearance but character and brains are forever.

 

[jduster]

I'm very inexperienced with dating. I'm going out tomorrow with a girl I met recently. I plan on paying for everything, but if she offers to pay, should I disagree with her and say that I will pay it? Or should I let her pay for it if she offers?

I don't think it matters that much, but I want to avoid giving off the wrong signs (whatever they may be).

Not all women feel the same way about this, but I would imagine a meaningful percentage of them expect the man to pay first. The first date does not need to be, and should not be expensive. During the first date, it is a small price to pay considering the possible alternative.

I think during the first date, the man should definitely pay first if he invited her out. He should offer, and if she offers, ask "are you sure", and if she says "yes", let her pay for her part.

 

[Snicker]

If she can't take care of herself, you probably would be better off without her.