Finding second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x

In summary: So, using the standard trig identity for ##\sin(\alpha+\beta)##, you should be able to find a second order ODE for y as a function of x.I think that's the easiest way to do this. In summary, the problem asked for the second derivative of sin y + cos y = x, and the attempt at a solution used implicit differentiation to obtain an expression for the first derivative. The question then arises whether to use the chain rule or the quotient rule to find the second derivative, with the conclusion that either method can be used. However, it is suggested that it may be easier to find y as a function of x and then differentiate twice, using the trig identity for ##\sin(\alpha+\
  • #1
sooyong94
173
2

Homework Statement


Find the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x, giving your answer in terms of x.


Homework Equations


Implicit derivatives


The Attempt at a Solution


##\sin y+\cos y=x##
##\cos y \frac{dy}{dx} -\sin y \frac{dy}{dx}=1##
##\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{1}{\cos y-\sin y}##

Now, do I use the chain rule by rewriting them as ##(\cos y-\sin y)^{-1}##, or use the quotient rule instead?
 
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  • #2
sooyong94 said:

Homework Statement


Find the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x, giving your answer in terms of x.


Homework Equations


Implicit derivatives


The Attempt at a Solution


##\sin y+\cos y=x##
##\cos y \frac{dy}{dx} -\sin y \frac{dy}{dx}=1##
##\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{1}{\cos y-\sin y}##

Now, do I use the chain rule by rewriting them as ##(\cos y-\sin y)^{-1}##, or use the quotient rule instead?
Either one. The chain rule might be a little easier.
 
  • #3
Now that gives:
##\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}=-(\cos y-\sin y)^{-2} (-\sin y \frac{dy}{dx} -\cos y \frac{dy}{dx})##
 
  • #4
sooyong94 said:
Now that gives:
##\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}=-(\cos y-\sin y)^{-2} (-\sin y \frac{dy}{dx} -\cos y \frac{dy}{dx})##

That should simplify to ##\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} = x(\frac{dy}{dx})^3## if you do the proper subs. Actually, it would've been much easier to leave everything on the LHS, and just use product rule and chain rule to get to that.

But it still doesn't help to put everything in terms of x. Honestly, I cannot see how you can progress from that stage.

I think you're much better off trying to find y as a function of x, then differentiating twice. This gives a quick answer.

To do that, think of how you would put ##a\sin x + b\cos x## into the form ##c\sin(x + \theta)##.

EDIT: There is a way to continue from ##\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} = x(\frac{dy}{dx})^3##. But you have to square the implicit equations for x and the first derivative and add them together to eliminate the y term (apply a trig identity as well). Seems like a bit more effort than just recasting y in terms of x from the start.
 
Last edited:
  • #5
Well, the form ##c\sin(x+\theta)## worked nicely. :P
 

1. What is the process for finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x?

The process for finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x involves using the chain rule and the product rule. First, take the derivative of the entire equation with respect to x. Then, use the chain rule to find the derivative of the inner function, sin y+cos y, and the product rule to find the derivative of the outer function, x.

2. How is the chain rule used when finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x?

The chain rule is used to find the derivative of the inner function, sin y+cos y, in the equation sin y+cos y=x. This involves taking the derivative of the inner function with respect to y, and then multiplying it by the derivative of y with respect to x. This allows us to find the derivative of the entire equation with respect to x.

3. What is the product rule and how is it used when finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x?

The product rule is a formula used to find the derivative of a product of two functions. When finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x, the product rule is used to find the derivative of the outer function, x. This involves taking the derivative of x with respect to x, and then multiplying it by the derivative of the inner function, sin y+cos y, with respect to x.

4. How does finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x help in solving for y?

Finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x allows us to find the rate of change of the slope of the original equation. This can help us determine the concavity of the function, and therefore, the points of inflection. This information can be useful in solving for y, as it gives us a better understanding of the behavior of the function.

5. Can the process for finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x be applied to other equations?

Yes, the process for finding the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x can be applied to other equations. As long as the equation involves a combination of trigonometric functions and variables, the same process can be used to find the second derivative. However, the specific steps may vary depending on the complexity of the equation.

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