FIU pedestrian bridge install left it vulnerable to collapse, WTH

AI Thread Summary
The recent collapse of the pedestrian bridge in Miami, which had been installed just days prior, has raised significant concerns regarding its engineering and construction processes. Experts suggest that the bridge was vulnerable to collapse during its installation phase, particularly as it was undergoing pre-opening stress tests when the failure occurred. Florida Senator Marco Rubio noted that the cables were being tightened at the time of the collapse, indicating potential mismanagement during construction. There are speculations about whether the failure was due to a design flaw, a construction error, or possibly a manufacturing defect, with some pointing to cracks reported two days before the incident as a critical warning. The tragedy emphasizes the need for thorough investigation into the engineering practices and safety protocols surrounding such structures.
Spinnor
Gold Member
Messages
2,227
Reaction score
419
4A3B39D500000578-5507475-image-a-4_1521155232825.jpg


4A3B171A00000578-5507475-image-a-6_1521155254831.jpg


"The pedestrian bridge in Miami that collapsed Thursday had only been put in place on Saturday under a process that allowed for installation of large sections — but that experts said left it vulnerable to collapse until it was complete."

From, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/03/15/fiu-pedestrian-bridge-design/429978002/

Which branch of engineering will likely own this tragedy?

Maybe some clues here, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amis-instant-bridge-collapses-violations.html

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOzPTZpJrB2wdiRq6LKNUjjPnI_0KGnBYtf7gzmtfiU-tV_Okx.jpg
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOzPTZpJrB2wdiRq6LKNUjjPnI_0KGnBYtf7gzmtfiU-tV_Okx.jpg
    11.1 KB · Views: 665
  • images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI2rIHxFW-aMukScEHzCSD605Hp0Osns8g_GaograwKxaH83NI3Q.jpg
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI2rIHxFW-aMukScEHzCSD605Hp0Osns8g_GaograwKxaH83NI3Q.jpg
    14.5 KB · Views: 618
  • 4A3B39D500000578-5507475-image-a-4_1521155232825.jpg
    4A3B39D500000578-5507475-image-a-4_1521155232825.jpg
    64.4 KB · Views: 1,848
  • 4A3B171A00000578-5507475-image-a-6_1521155254831.jpg
    4A3B171A00000578-5507475-image-a-6_1521155254831.jpg
    45.9 KB · Views: 1,830
Engineering news on Phys.org
On the TV news just now, they said that the bridge was undergoing pre-opening stress tests, either when it collapsed or just before. That might be part of the final analysis...
 
berkeman said:
On the TV news just now, they said that the bridge was undergoing pre-opening stress tests, either when it collapsed or just before. That might be part of the final analysis...

I'm not sure of the procedure for a stress test but they were working on something.
DYWaea1UQAAv01q.jpg

In the video you can see the crane in place before it's moved out of the way.
 

Attachments

  • DYWaea1UQAAv01q.jpg
    DYWaea1UQAAv01q.jpg
    58.3 KB · Views: 1,177
nsaspook said:
I'm not sure of the procedure for a stress test but they were working on something.
Looks like they were tightening the cables when it collapsed:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/16/us/bridge-collapse-florida/index.html
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who visited the bridge site Thursday, posted on Twitter: "The cables that suspend the #Miami bridge had loosened & the engineering firm ordered that they be tightened. They were being tightened when it collapsed today." Rubio has been a visiting professor at the university for the past 10 years.
 
This is hardly the first bridge to be constructed this way. It's a relatively new technique, but it isn't truly first-of-its-kind, and I suspect the method will become more and more common in the coming years because it is pretty wonderful. My point being that I really don't think this was a problem related to the concept of how the bridge was meant to be built. Even if the bridge is technically weaker before the installation is final, this would have been expected and the initial installation would have been designed to make it plenty strong under any expected load.

This leaves two possibilities: either it was an engineering problem with this particular bridge (some kind of design error) or else it was a construction problem (a bad procedure or someone taking a shortcut). My guess is it will turn out to be a construction problem. As soon as they realized the cables were loose, they should have closed the road. Failing that, as soon as they decided to tighten the cables, they should have closed the road. This is going to almost certainly fall on the shoulders of the construction foreman who should have known better. You don't screw with a structure like that while traffic is moving beneath it.

EDIT: A manufacturing defect could also explain it. For example, perhaps one of the cables had a defect, and had, in fact stretched a bit instead of loosening as described in the article. That would imply it was past the yield stress of the cable and the act of tightening it would have rapidly led to a failure. That's pure speculation on my part, of course, but it's a plausible explanation. Again, though, they should have closed the road.
 
  • Like
Likes 256bits, Spinnor, Asymptotic and 2 others
You would think the reinforcements in the concrete would have prevented what looked like a shear fracture. Once you strip it all down the bridge is just an I-beam. Did the vertical supports just disconnect from the upper/lower plates?
IMG_4387-570x428.jpg

 

Attachments

  • IMG_4387-570x428.jpg
    IMG_4387-570x428.jpg
    43.3 KB · Views: 1,226
  • Like
Likes Spinnor
nsaspook said:
Once you strip it all down the bridge is just an I-beam. Did the vertical supports just disconnect from the upper/lower plates?
If I had to bet on the mode of failure, I would guess that one of the prestressed concrete diagonals was crushed slightly during the move and install. That would have slackened the enclosed diagonal tension wires. The mistake would then be to tighten the slack wires which would cause further collapse of the concrete under compression. It would also pull the top and bottom plates out of their planes and transfer compression to adjacent diagonals. The beam would then fail in the traditional way, by catastrophic buckling of the top plate under compression, with asymmetric off-axis forces.
 
  • Like
Likes jim hardy, 256bits and Spinnor
There is a poor quality video of one end of the bridge failing on the web.
 
  • #12
It does appear that the failure began on the north end. That doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with the cracks. For all we know, "cracks" may have been purely cosmetic.
 
  • #13
gleem said:
I has been reported by an inspector that cracks appeared in the north end of the structure two days before the collapse. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/17/us/florida-miami-bridge-collapse/index.html

It doesn't seem reasonable to me to say that a crack in a newly build bridge was not a safety concern.
This is the really unfortunate part of that call, IMO...
Two days before an under-construction pedestrian bridge crumbled in Miami, killing at least six people, an engineer for the company that designed it called a Florida Department of Transportation employee, warning of "some cracking."

The state employee was out on assignment that day. The call from W. Denney Pate of FIGG Bridge Engineers went unanswered, and the voice mail he recorded unheard -- until Friday.

That was the day after the span fell onto a busy eight-lane street near Florida International University, crushing people and cars.
 
  • #14
There's a fellow on internet named "AVE" who postulates a tendon failed during tensioning.
Top image is a snip from his sixteen minute video. He thinks that's a hydraulic tensioner still connected to a tendon rod protruding out the end of a failed cross member joint near north end.
bottom image is my snip from a grainy TV newscast,, security cam at instant of collapse with my annotations.
fiubridge4.jpg

We non-civil engineers who don't take advanced truss design courses are accustomed to pinned joints. But a vierendeel truss has rigid joints so stress there when it flexes must be terrific.

So this is offered as interesting and nothing more. I'm no civil engineer.

old jim
 

Attachments

  • fiubridge4.jpg
    fiubridge4.jpg
    33 KB · Views: 1,056
  • #15
bigger snip still grainy.

fiubridge5.jpg


here's that amateur video , probably not up to PF standards for a reference so don't take it to the bank.


-language warning - the guy doesn't just call a spade a spade he calls it a effin shovel...old jim
 

Attachments

  • fiubridge5.jpg
    fiubridge5.jpg
    27.2 KB · Views: 1,051
  • Like
Likes m4r35n357, Spinnor, Tom.G and 1 other person
  • #16
Stress test with the road open? Someone needs to go to prison.
 
  • Like
Likes JBA, Ketch22 and russ_watters
  • #17

Zoomed clip of the best video I've seen of the drop. The diagonal support just left of the crane seems to disconnect at the very start of the drop.
 
  • Like
Likes Spinnor, jim hardy and Greg Bernhardt
  • #18
nsaspook said:

Zoomed clip of the best video I've seen of the drop. The diagonal support just left of the crane seems to disconnect at the very start of the drop.

oh dear that is hard to watch
 
  • #19
Greg Bernhardt said:
oh dear that is hard to watch

Yes, it is but it also show the first instinct of people is to help.
 
  • Like
Likes berkeman and Greg Bernhardt
  • #20
Greg Bernhardt said:
oh dear that is hard to watch
Does anybody know if the bridge worker who was on the very top left of the bridge near the crane arm survived that 50 foot free-fall? Ouch.
 
  • #21
berkeman said:
Does anybody know if the bridge worker who was on the very top left of the bridge near the crane arm survived that 50 foot free-fall? Ouch.

I don't know, but I think, perhaps, your ability to estimate distances is suspect.
 
  • #22
boneh3ad said:
I don't know, but I think, perhaps, your ability to estimate distances is suspect.
Which way? +/-? Looks to be about 10x his height (EMT estimate).
 
  • #23
berkeman said:
Which way? +/-? Looks to be about 10x his height (EMT estimate).

I feel like that drop looks to be 20 feet at the absolute most before he lands on the roof, then another 10 to 15 of non-free-fall drop after that. Still a hell of a fall, but not 50 feet.

EDIT I pulled the photo and estimated based on the height of one of the construction workers. It was very rough on account of perspective and whatnot, but I estimated that the roof started about 40 feet above the road and that the top of the roof was roughly 20 feet above the bottom of the deck, which is in rough agreement with what I said above. That said, I am sure there is at least some degree of confirmation bias in there.
 
  • #24
Baluncore said:
If I had to bet on the mode of failure, I would guess that one of the prestressed concrete diagonals was crushed slightly during the move and install. That would have slackened the enclosed diagonal tension wires. The mistake would then be to tighten the slack wires which would cause further collapse of the concrete under compression. It would also pull the top and bottom plates out of their planes and transfer compression to adjacent diagonals. The beam would then fail in the traditional way, by catastrophic buckling of the top plate under compression, with asymmetric off-axis forces.

i finally absorbed that. Sure looks plausible.
 
  • #25
jim hardy said:
i finally absorbed that. Sure looks plausible.

It would also seem to make the bridge prone to single point catastrophic failure at anyone diagonal.
 
  • #26
nsaspook said:
It would also seem to make the bridge prone to single point catastrophic failure at anyone diagonal.
That is true, but it is only vulnerable during the construction phase before the stays are installed.

I am not a Civil Engineer. I am just fascinated by unexpected structural failures, but only so I can avoid them.

The car-cam video is slow frame rate, but examining the surveillance video of the failure shown on the news here gives a greater frame rate. It is subtle, but the upper plate appears to shudder and rock momentarily sideways, a slow wave then travels along the T top plate and is reflected back to the trigger point where the failure then occurs and where more complex waves form. That makes me think a tension cable snapped, triggering two waves, one towards each end of the bridge. Both waves were reflected efficiently from the open plate ends, the (standing wave) sum of the deflections then causing failure of the upper plate at the weakened point.

The design plans for the bridge show a (north, river end) tower with cable stays that line up with half the diagonals. Those cable stays had not yet been installed, so the structure needed to be temporarily carried during construction by a much greater compression in the top plate. Once stayed, the upper plate would not be under such a high compression and would then function as a cover over the suspended walkway. I believe that was the reason why during installation it was left “vulnerable to collapse”.

In my opinion, the I beam design did not sufficiently constrain the top plate to prevent buckling during construction. It was probably the failure of one off-centre cable, then a doubling of the amplitude by the standing wave formation that exceeded the top plate specifications. I suspect the dynamic doubling of the amplitude due to wave reflection would not have been considered when designing the top plate for construction.

It may go back to the beginning of the design when the “open look” of one central line of stays attracted attention to the prejudice of stability. If a box form had been used with two lines of stays, one on each side, the top plate could not have rocked. During construction, the one line of cable stays along the centre line allowed one too many degrees of freedom.

A good engineer will work out the strength requirement, then double it. But when reflected waves are involved, the deflection can double and so come back to bite the engineer. After the tragedy it is more important to identify the failure mechanism than it is to prosecute and punish. The engineers involved are also victims.

The emotive term “stress test” implies a deliberate approach to the point of failure. The adjustment of cable tension after the move would have been expected. That was probably what they were doing when the cable snapped and the stored energy in the structure was released.

I may be totally wrong, but it seems to me to be the simplest explanation of how such a tragedy might happen.

Stored energy will get you everytime.
 
  • Like
Likes nsaspook and Spinnor
  • #27
looking at @nsaspook 's picture from 7 there are stays i'd never noticed . So somebody was worried about at least one more degree of freedom
and the truck dashcam video shows where it broke, though a crane blocked the view so it's inexact
and if that fellow 'AVE' is right about that tendon snapping in this diagonal

fiubridge6.jpg


Would it stay up without that first diagonal ?
dashcam view from other side...
fiubridge7.jpg


old jim
 

Attachments

  • fiubridge6.jpg
    fiubridge6.jpg
    29.4 KB · Views: 1,125
  • fiubridge7.jpg
    fiubridge7.jpg
    21.9 KB · Views: 842
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Spinnor
  • #29
upload_2018-3-18_18-31-14.png


This is a screenshot of what this bridge was to look like. Those "cable stays" when installed would have greatly increased the strength of the bridge.

Screen shot from,

On a major project like this I would hope that in all phases of the work an engineer is needed to approve every action taken by the workforce. Is that typically the case?
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-3-18_18-31-14.png
    upload_2018-3-18_18-31-14.png
    86.9 KB · Views: 851
  • #30
Spinnor said:
This is a screenshot of what this bridge was to look like. Those "cable stays" when installed would have greatly increased the strength of the bridge.
So it was a sort of suspension bridge and at the time there was no suspension?
 
  • #31
Greg Bernhardt said:
So it was a sort of suspension bridge and at the time there was no suspension?
Yes. It was designed as a truss to survive installation, but something went wrong before the tower and final cable stays were installed.
See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable-stayed_bridge#Comparison_with_suspension_bridge

jim hardy said:
looking at nsaspook's picture from 7 there are stays i'd never noticed . So somebody was worried about at least one more degree of freedom
I notice those extra stay cables keep the angle between the bottom plate and the central web of diagonals perpendicular, yet there were no similar stays to keep the top plate flat. It is as if the designer of the temporary stays forgot that the fundamental weakness of the long truss structure was buckling of the top plate in compression. The end bay of the top plate looks very open and vulnerable, yet that was the area that appears from above to be most crushed in the debris.
The end diagonal would have been under high compression due to web shear. I wonder if they re-tensioned those tendons, increasing that compression, when tension was not possible in that member.
 
  • #32
Baluncore said:
The end diagonal would have been under high compression due to web shear. I wonder if they re-tensioned those tendons, increasing that compression, when tension was not possible in that member.

During the move might that diagonal have been in tension? Note the moving rig was well inboard from that end to clear the concrete traffic barrier down on the road.
If it stretched and yielded the tension rod, what would happen?
Check this newscast video. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/16/us/bridge-collapse-florida/index.html

0min:33 sec Cracking at unspecified location on north end
upload_2018-3-18_21-34-31.png


upload_2018-3-18_21-36-22.png


1min:35 sec "'..at the moment of the bridge's collapse..work was being done to strengthen the diagonal supports..."

from the dashcams only people up on top were right over that diagonal. Might somebody have tried to close up cracks by tightening the rods?

Can't conclude anything from what little we know,
but as an old troubleshooter i'd sure have a close look at that area to find out who was doing what, and why ..

old jim

fiubridge11.jpg
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-3-18_21-34-31.png
    upload_2018-3-18_21-34-31.png
    88 KB · Views: 773
  • upload_2018-3-18_21-36-22.png
    upload_2018-3-18_21-36-22.png
    60.6 KB · Views: 709
  • fiubridge11.jpg
    fiubridge11.jpg
    37.4 KB · Views: 742
  • #33
Rather looks like it was some on-the-spot guess work that decided to support the bridge during erection other than per the intended erection plan. Thus put the supports in different places, changing all the internal loads on the structure and setting one or more tension rods up to fail. Lots of questions to be resolved and answers to be found. Look for a whole lot of finger pointing to happen. Old Jim Hardy has showed us the tensioner that seems to have driven the final failure.
 
  • Like
Likes jim hardy
  • #34
That AVE guy on Youtube first spotted it.

Disasters are like dominoes - a whole lot of insignificant little details line up waiting for a trigger. It's how the small things of the Earth confound the mighty.

old jim
 
  • Like
Likes Spinnor and nsaspook
  • #35
It gets curioser and curioser.

Baluncore said:
The end diagonal would have been under high compression due to web shear. I wonder if they re-tensioned those tendons, increasing that compression, when tension was not possible in that member.

might not have been a tensioner in it? sure looks like one in the rubble...
This is from the proposal so not an "As Built" drawing..
http://facilities.fiu.edu/projects/BT_904/MCM_FIGG_Proposal_for_FIU_Pedestrian_Bridge_9-30-2015.pdf
fiubridge14.jpg


so we'll have to wait on the trickle of information.

@Baluncore - that AVE youtube video pointed out when they lifted the span that end was cantilevered - wouldn't that put north-most diagonal #11 in tension?

Hopefully somebody made provision for the "As Lifted" transporter arrangement...

fiubridge15.jpg


Sigh. Old troubleshooter just can't let go. I grew up about five miles from there.

old jim
 

Attachments

  • fiubridge14.jpg
    fiubridge14.jpg
    39.1 KB · Views: 1,927
  • fiubridge15.jpg
    fiubridge15.jpg
    46 KB · Views: 1,294
Last edited:
  • #36
jim hardy said:
It gets curioser and curioser.
might not have been a tensioner in it? sure looks like one in the rubble...
This is from the proposal so not an "As Built" drawing..
http://facilities.fiu.edu/projects/BT_904/MCM_FIGG_Proposal_for_FIU_Pedestrian_Bridge_9-30-2015.pdf
View attachment 222347

so we'll have to wait on the trickle of information.

@Baluncore - that AVE youtube video pointed out when they lifted the span that end was cantilevered - wouldn't that put north-most diagonal #11 in tension?

Hopefully somebody made provision for the "As Lifted" transporter arrangement...

View attachment 222348

Sigh. Old troubleshooter just can't let go. I grew up about five miles from there.

old jim
So if they forgot to tension 11 when they changed the lifting plan that would account for the report of "slack cables" and cracking.
 
  • #37
jim hardy said:
@Baluncore - that AVE youtube video pointed out when they lifted the span that end was cantilevered - wouldn't that put north-most diagonal #11 in tension?

That looks right, what happens if it is in tension?

Thanks!
 
  • #39
boneh3ad said:
It does appear that the failure began on the north end. That doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with the cracks. For all we know, "cracks" may have been purely cosmetic.
I have been unable to discover the pictures again - perhaps it was on a news report, but to me it appeared that the majority of reinforcement rods were going in the wrong direction. Since this was just a flash observation I couldn't be sure. Also the way that the concrete shattered suggests little to no reinforcement in areas. One of the ways that they take old concrete buildings down is to break them apart sufficiently to remove the reinforcing steel rods and then they put the sections of concrete through a grinder to make pebbles that can be trucked away. There was a very large area reduced to these pebbles. This suggests to me that it was either insufficiently reinforced or the concrete mixture was incorrect.

Another thing - this was supposedly going to be suspended. So why didn't they put the suspension pillar up first? One of the things I have a real problem with is a design in which there was a light directly in front of this bridge which forced traffic to stop and wait underneath and/or to be moving at a slow rate of speed. To my mind these sorts of crosswalk bridges are supposed to be away from this sort of thing. We have some of these sorts of bridges around the San Francisco area and they are all away from areas there traffic might congregate.
 
  • #40
Concrete is strong on compression but weak in tension. If necessary any beams that might be in tension are put into compression by pre or post tensioning rods inside the concrete. In this case the beams were post tensioned using hydraulic rod tensioners.

What follows is reasonable speculation until more is known...

It looks like they calculated beam 11 didn't need to be post tensioned, presumably because they thought it would be in compression while rhe bridge was moved and when the bridge was fully errected.

However when the lifting tressle was moved inboard this caused the north end to be cantilevered and beam 11 to be in tension, possibly causing the reported cracking?

My guess is they realized beam 11 was in tension when investigating the cracks and were trying to post tension it when it failed.
 
  • Like
Likes jim hardy
  • #41
Tom Kunich said:
One of the things I have a real problem with is a design in which there was a light directly in front of this bridge which forced traffic to stop and wait underneath and/or to be moving at a slow rate of speed. To my mind these sorts of crosswalk bridges are supposed to be away from this sort of thing. We have some of these sorts of bridges around the San Francisco area and they are all away from areas there traffic might congregate.

That certainly sounds like a reasonable measure to take in an earthquake area.
 
  • #42
In the discussion above, there is frequent discussion of "beam xxx being in tension/compresson." This is loose terminology. The concrete should always be in compression and the reinforcement always in tension, even though these are coaxial. Thus to speak of "beam xxx" as being in tension is unclear; are you saying that, for this beam, the concrete is in tension or the steel is in tension? Each of these members will be in compression in the concrete and in tension in the steel, if all is correct.
 
  • Like
Likes jim hardy and CWatters
  • #43
Cheryl Stopnick, an outside spokeswoman for FIGG Bridge Engineers, which designed the bridge, said the structure was “truss bridge with above-deck truss elements.”

Robert Accetta, the National Transportation Safety Board investigator in charge, said diagonal elements between the bridge’s canopy and deck worked like a truss bridge. But the cables designed to fan out from the column weren’t needed to support the bridge deck, he said.

“As I understand it, these were cosmetic,” Accetta said. “They were not structural members.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...se-suspension-cables-support-tower/431418002/

Tom Kunich said:
Another thing - this was supposedly going to be suspended. So why didn't they put the suspension pillar up first? One of the things I have a real problem with is a design in which there was a light directly in front of this bridge which forced traffic to stop and wait underneath and/or to be moving at a slow rate of speed. To my mind these sorts of crosswalk bridges are supposed to be away from this sort of thing. We have some of these sorts of bridges around the San Francisco area and they are all away from areas there traffic might congregate.
 
  • #44
Dr.D said:
In the discussion above, there is frequent discussion of "beam xxx being in tension/compresson." This is loose terminology. The concrete should always be in compression and the reinforcement always in tension, even though these are coaxial.

Understood.

Some of the documents (see post #35) appear to show there were no reinforcement bars in elements 9 and 11-14 and hence there is no value for the "P.T force/bar" in the table for those elements. This suggests they weren't expecting these elements to be subject to tension loads but tension loads may have occurred when they changed how the bridge was moved into place.

To add confusion photos appear to show there were bars in element 11. Perhaps they put bars in element 11 "just in case" but never tensioned them because they thought they weren't needed because they always expected compression loads?
 
  • #45
Dr.D said:
In the discussion above, there is frequent discussion of "beam xxx being in tension/compresson." This is loose terminology. The concrete should always be in compression and the reinforcement always in tension, even though these are coaxial. Thus to speak of "beam xxx" as being in tension is unclear; are you saying that, for this beam, the concrete is in tension or the steel is in tension? Each of these members will be in compression in the concrete and in tension in the steel, if all is correct.

Mea Culpa, what happens when electricals try to wet their feet in civil engineering.
I was speaking of the net force on the diagonal element.
It appears to me that during transport #11 would be under tension. If #11 has inside itself a tensioning rod that was tensioned to keep the concrete in compression - no problem .
......
IF indeed during transport #11 DID experience tension,
AND IF it had no internal pretensioning rod
THEN i see how it could have suffered damage, for its internal rebars would have had to counteract the tension and that requires stretching them.

Would a beam that had been subjected to that stretch be prone to buckling upon return to compression loading ?

Please excuse my clumsiness with terms - i hope i conveyed that thought unambiguously.

CWatters said:
To add confusion photos appear to show there were bars in element 11. Perhaps they put bars in element 11 "just in case" but never tensioned them because they thought they weren't needed because they always expected compression loads?

That's the 64 dollar question to me right now.
Was #11 built per that preliminary drawing without a tensioning rod to keep the concrete in compression under tensile load?
If not, did cantilevering that end of the beam edit bridge during transport apply tension to diagonal #11 ?

Right now that remains a hypothetical mechanism for failure. The hypothesis needs to be held up against as-built drawing, and if diagonal #11 was tensioned how much and when.
Then it can be pursued farther or discarded.

They've sure been quiet about what where how much and when was tensioned.

That's troubleshooting - rule out possibilities one at a time.

old jim
 
Last edited:
  • #47
CWatters said:
My guess is they realized beam 11 was in tension when investigating the cracks and were trying to post tension it when it failed.
But beam 11 was only in tension during the move. I notice some reinforcing steel showing in the crushed concrete and I would expect that steel to support the weight of the short cantilever during transport. Any cracks that did open in member 11 during transport would have closed when it was seated.

The situation changed completely when the truss was positioned and seated on the end points only. Then members 2 and 11 would be under their highest compressive load, along with the top plate. Once that situation was present, any tendon under tension in member 11 would be a liability as it would increase the total load carried by the concrete in 11, without advantage. I suspect that was why no PT bar tendons were specified for member 11 in the original proposal.

My concern is then with the junction of member 11 and the top plate. At that point the compression in 11 must be spread from the solid junction block of 10 and 11, out into the wide thin section of the top plate. As I see it, that stress concentration in the top plate will then be the vulnerable point.

The low frame rate car video shows member 11 failing high up, close to the solid junction block. It did not fail near the centre as I would expect with a column stability problem. Nor was it first to fail. I take that to indicate a failure in the top plate, very close to the 10, 11 junction block, that then broke member 11 close to the rigid junction block.

The crushing failure of the top plate is very rapid. The top plate near the 10, 11 junction block accelerates downwards at greater than one G, as is evident by the unfortunate operator = valuable witness, on the top plate, stretching from a crouch to full length as the top plate is forced downwards by the centre of mass of the main truss.

There is still the wave and shudder present in the top plate that plays an important part in the failure sequence. That wave is seen only in the high frame rate TV, not in the car-cam video.
 
  • Like
Likes CWatters, Spinnor, jim hardy and 1 other person
  • #48
Baluncore said:
There is still the wave and shudder present in the top plate that plays an important part in the failure sequence. That wave is seen only in the high frame rate TV, not in the car-cam video.

Hmmm. i'd been looking for that ever since you mentioned it a day or two ago.
Per the proposal the vertical resonance is raised to >3hz by the overhead stays that weren't yet there . I've not found what it is without them.
Horizontal is >1.3hz
page 63 of the proposal pdf
upload_2018-3-20_19-38-28.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-3-20_19-38-28.png
    upload_2018-3-20_19-38-28.png
    13.8 KB · Views: 647
  • #49
Those natural frequency specs are intended to guard against resonance due footsteps, wind vortex shedding, and various other excitations. They really tell us next to nothing about the static situation (I've not seen any mention at all of high winds or other environmental excitations). Further, I'm pretty sured that they are intended to apply to the completed structure, not to the half-built assembly. It was never really completed, so we'll never see those conditions at work.
 
  • Like
Likes jim hardy
  • #50
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/west-miami-dade/article206122229.html
Steel-truss bridges have been commonly used in roadway construction going back decades. But they have a well-known vulnerability: If a vehicle hits one of the horizontal support trusses, the entire span can collapse.

That’s what happened in the 2013 collapse of a 1955 steel-truss bridge over the Skagit River on Interstate 5 near Seattle: A truck carrying an oversized load struck supporting steel struts along one side of a bridge span, which split apart and fell into the river. That’s because there were no backup or redundant structural elements to support the span if one piece failed.
...
His source is not clear. But the Associated Press said in a story Tuesday that the Florida Department of Transportation ordered the northern support pylon be moved 11 feet to make room for future expansion of the trail. That required a design change that lengthened the span — and put the support pylon in the dirt well off the edge of the roadway, which could also explain why the northernmost truck could no longer follow its original planned route.
 
  • Like
Likes Spinnor

Similar threads

Back
Top