Flat vs Open Universe: CMBR & Type Ia Supernovae

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) and observations of Type Ia supernovae for the geometry of the universe, specifically contrasting flat and open universe models. It explores theoretical aspects of cosmic expansion, including the role of dark energy and cosmological constants.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that CMBR suggests a flat universe, which is widely accepted, but question how this aligns with the observed acceleration of the universe's expansion indicated by Type Ia supernovae.
  • It is proposed that in a flat universe, expansion is expected to slow exponentially and eventually stop if there is no cosmological constant or dark energy.
  • Others argue that the observed acceleration points to the presence of a nonzero cosmological constant or dark energy, which allows for accelerating expansion in closed, flat, or open spatial geometries.
  • Some participants clarify that an open universe with zero cosmological constant would still exhibit slowing expansion but would never completely stop, contrasting with the implications of a nonzero cosmological constant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of CMBR and Type Ia supernova observations for the universe's geometry. There is no consensus on whether the universe is flat or open, and the role of dark energy remains a point of contention.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the presence of dark energy and the implications of different cosmological models, which are not fully resolved. The relationship between the geometry of the universe and the behavior of cosmic expansion is complex and not definitively established in this exchange.

Willfrid Somogyi
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So CMBR points to a flat universe, and this seems to be the generally accepted model. But in a flat universe is expansion not supposed to slow exponentially, stopping after an infinite time? How does this fit with the observation that distant type Ia supernovae show the universe's expansion to be accelerating, which would point to an open universe.
 
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Willfrid Somogyi said:
But in a flat universe is expansion not supposed to slow exponentially, stopping after an infinite time?

Only if there is no cosmological constant/dark energy.

Willfrid Somogyi said:
the universe's expansion to be accelerating, which would point to an open universe.

No, it points to there being a nonzero cosmological constant/dark energy. An open universe with zero cosmological constant would still have slowing expansion; but it would never slow to a complete stop, even after an infinite time. The only way to get accelerating expansion is to have a nonzero cosmological constant/dark energy; and such models are possible with closed, flat, or open spatial geometry.
 
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PeterDonis said:
Only if there is no cosmological constant/dark energy.
No, it points to there being a nonzero cosmological constant/dark energy. An open universe with zero cosmological constant would still have slowing expansion; but it would never slow to a complete stop, even after an infinite time. The only way to get accelerating expansion is to have a nonzero cosmological constant/dark energy; and such models are possible with closed, flat, or open spatial geometry.

Thanks!
 

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