Fuids - vorticity from viscocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between viscosity and vorticity in fluid dynamics, particularly in the context of inviscid and viscous flows. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and practical scenarios related to the generation of vorticity from initial conditions and boundary effects.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if an inviscid flow starts with no vorticity, no vorticity will be produced, supported by an intuitive understanding of forces acting on fluid elements.
  • Another participant rewrites the vorticity transport equation using the material derivative, suggesting that if the flow is initially irrotational, it remains so over time, unless initial vorticity is present.
  • A third participant questions whether the presence of viscous terms can lead to the production of vorticity if starting with none, suggesting that in 2D, the diffusion nature of the vorticity equation implies no production from zero initial vorticity.
  • A later reply indicates that while theory suggests no vorticity should arise from an initial state of zero, real-world scenarios often contradict this due to factors like the no-slip condition and phenomena such as free shear layers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the theoretical implications of the vorticity transport equation, but there is disagreement regarding the practical outcomes in real flows, particularly concerning the influence of boundary conditions and initial states on vorticity production.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on idealized conditions versus real-world scenarios, and the discussion acknowledges that certain assumptions may not hold in practical applications.

julian
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If invisid flow starts with no vorticity then no vorticity will be produced. This can be understood
intuitively: we note that of the three types of force that can act on a cubic fluid
element, the pressure, body forces, and viscous forces, only the viscous shear forces are
able to give rotary motion. Hence if the viscous effects are nonexistent, vorticity cannot
be introduced.

Can this be derived from the Navier-Stokes equations for vorticity:

[itex]\dfrac{\partial \vec{\omega}}{\partial t} + \vec{u} \cdot \nabla \vec{\omega} = \vec{\omega} \cdot \nabla \vec{u} + \nu \nabla^2 \vec{\omega}[/itex]

[itex]\nabla \cdot \vec{u} = 0[/itex]?
 
Last edited:
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Sure. Note that the vorticity transport equation can be rewritten with the material derivative instead
[tex]\dfrac{\partial \vec{\omega}}{\partial t} + \vec{u}\cdot\nabla\vec{\omega} = \dfrac{D\vec{\omega}}{Dt} = \vec{\omega}\cdot\nabla\vec{u} + \nu\nabla^2\vec{\omega}.[/tex]

For an inviscid flow, that last term is zero (or neglected), that leaves
[tex]\dfrac{D\vec{\omega}}{Dt} = \vec{\omega}\cdot\nabla\vec{u}.[/tex]

So basically, this states that if the flow is irrotational initially, then ##\vec{\omega}(t=0) = 0##, and therefore
[tex]\dfrac{D\vec{\omega}}{Dt} = 0,[/tex]
meaning the flow remains irrotational forever. That does leave open the possibility that if the flow initially contains some vorticity, the vorticity can change over time and space.

If you want to take that further, consider a 2-D flow, in which case the ##\vec{\omega}\cdot\nabla\vec{u}## term drops out as well (it only only contains derivatives in the direction that is zero by the 2-D definition) and
[tex]\dfrac{D\vec{\omega}}{Dt} \equiv 0[/tex]
regardless of initial conditions.

This whole concept is known as Kelvin's theorem.
 
Thanks for that. I also want to know if you start with no vorticity at an instant in time, will the presence of the viscous term lead to the production of vorticity?

In 2D the vorticity equation is just the diffusion equation for the vorticity, and from what I know about that I would say that if there was no vorticity to start with there would be no production of vorticity.

Can vorticity only be produced from the non-slip condition for solid objects?
 
Last edited:
Apologies for the late response; it's been a busy weekend.

Anyway, in theory, according to the vorticity transport equation, if you start with no vorticity you should never have any. However, this simply can't happen in most real flows subject to, as you said, the no-slip condition except in a few instances (e.g. Couette flow). Vorticity can also be "produced" through phenomena like free shear layers, but the no-slip condition is the big one.
 

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