Heat Engine Efficiency and Entropy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the efficiency of heat engines, specifically focusing on the Carnot efficiency and the role of entropy in thermodynamic cycles. Participants explore the implications of entropy generation within the working fluid and its effects on engine efficiency.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the assumption of no net entropy generation is necessary for the Carnot efficiency, seeking clarification on the relationship between entropy gain and engine efficiency.
  • Another participant presents a mathematical formulation indicating that if entropy is generated within the working fluid, the efficiency of the engine will be less than the Carnot efficiency due to the positive entropy generation term.
  • Several participants express confusion regarding the condition that the change in entropy (ΔS) must equal zero in a cyclic process, questioning the implications if the system were to maintain generated entropy.
  • A later reply emphasizes that in a cyclic process, the working fluid returns to its initial state, which necessitates that the net change in its entropy is zero, implying that all generated entropy must be transferred to the reservoirs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the necessity of ΔS equaling zero in cyclic processes, indicating that multiple views on this condition and its implications remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the implications of maintaining generated entropy in the system, leaving assumptions about the behavior of the working fluid and its temperature changes from cycle to cycle unaddressed.

UMath1
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In deriving the Carnot Efficiency, the assumption is made that theoretically most efficient engine will generate no net entropy, meaning that the entropy that enters the system during heat absorption must equal the entropy that leaves the engine during heat rejection. Why is the case? Why would the engine be less efficient if it gained more entropy than it lost, or vice versa?
 
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If entropy is generated within the working fluid, then $$\Delta S=\frac{Q_{in}}{T_{hot}}-\frac{Q_{out}}{T_{cold}}+\sigma$$where ##\sigma## is the entropy generated per cycle. But, if the engine is operating in a cycle, then $$\Delta S=0$$. Therefore, $$\frac{Q_{in}}{T_{hot}}-\frac{Q_{out}}{T_{cold}}+\sigma=0$$. The efficiency of the engine is $$\eta=\frac{Q_{in}-Q_{out}}{Q_{in}}$$where the numerator represents the amount of work done. Eliminating ##Q_{out}## between these two equations, we obtain: $$\eta=\left(1-\frac{T_{cold}}{T_{hot}}\right)-\frac{\sigma T_{cold}}{Q_{in}}$$The first term in parenthesis is the Carnot efficiency. Since the entropy generation ##\sigma## must always be positive, the efficiency is less than the Carnot efficiency.
 
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That makes sense. I still don't understand why ΔS must equal 0. What if the system continues to maintain the generated entropy? What would happen then?
 
UMath1 said:
That makes sense. I still don't understand why ΔS must equal 0. What if the system continues to maintain the generated entropy? What would happen then?
By definition, in a cycle, the working fluid is returned to its initial state after the cycle is completed (so the change in its entropy is zero). Therefore, all the entropy generated in an engine cycle is transferred to the reservoirs. If that were not the case, the temperature of the working fluid would be changing from cycle to cycle.
 

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