How to Calculate the Lower Limit of the Diameter of an Icy Minor Planet?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework question regarding the calculation of the lower limit of the diameter of an icy minor planet. Participants explore the relationship between pressure, mass, and radius in the context of icy planetesimals, focusing on the maximum pressure that cold ice can sustain without deforming.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to derive the "lower limit to the diameter" from the given pressure condition and suggests using a specific formula involving central pressure.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the origin of the formula and suggests that a relationship between size and pressure is needed, indicating that the initial formula may represent an upper limit instead.
  • A third participant provides a detailed derivation of the hydrostatic equilibrium equation and mass conservation, leading to an expression for central pressure in terms of mass and radius.
  • This participant proposes setting the central pressure equal to 40 MPa and questions how to proceed without a given mass, suggesting the use of a known mass for an icy minor planet like Ceres.
  • Another participant points out discrepancies in the formulas being discussed and emphasizes the importance of knowing the density of ice to relate radius and mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to calculate the lower limit of the diameter, with multiple competing views and formulas presented. There is uncertainty regarding the appropriate relationships and values to use in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the information provided, such as the lack of a specific mass for the icy minor planet and the need for a clear relationship between radius and mass based on the density of ice.

duder1234
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I have a homework question that I am having troubles with.

Q: By equating the pressure at the centre of an icy planetesimal to the maximum pressure that cold ice can sustain without deforming, about 40 MPa, find a lower limit to the diameter of an icy minor planet.

The part I don't understand is the "lower limit to the diameter"
Do I use: Pcentral >[itex]\frac{GM^{2}}{8πr^{4}}dm[/itex]

I just don't know how to get the diameter...
 
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I don't know where your formula comes from, but you need some relation between size (like the radius r in your formula?) and pressure in the center, and then let the pressure in the center be 40MPa.
This looks more like an upper limit, however.
 
mfb said:
I don't know where your formula comes from
I did:
[itex]\frac{dP}{dr}[/itex]=[itex]ρg[/itex]
and [itex]g[/itex]=[itex]\frac{GM}{r^2}[/itex]
so [itex]\frac{dP}{dr}=\frac{-GMρ}{r^2}[/itex] (Hydrostatic equilibrium equation)
and [itex]\frac{dM}{dr}[/itex]=[itex]4πr^{2}ρ[/itex] (equation of mass conservation)

by dividing the two equations: [itex]\frac{dP/dr}{dM/dr}[/itex]=[itex]\frac{dP}{dM}[/itex]=[itex]\frac{-GM}{4πr^4}[/itex]

integration: [itex]P_{c}-P_{s}[/itex]=-[itex]\int^{M_{c}}_{M_{s}}[/itex]([itex]\frac{GM}{4πr^4}[/itex])[itex]dM[/itex]
[itex]P_{c}[/itex] and [itex]P_{s}[/itex] are pressure at centre and surface of the planet
and by setting [itex]M_{c}=0[/itex] and by switching the intergral:

[itex]P_{c}-P_{s}[/itex]=[itex]\int^{M_{s}}_{0}[/itex]([itex]\frac{GM}{4πr^4}[/itex])[itex]dM[/itex]

and

[itex]\int^{M_{s}}_{0}[/itex]([itex]\frac{GM}{4πr^4}[/itex])[itex]dM[/itex] > [itex]\int^{M_{s}}_{0}[/itex]([itex]\frac{GM}{4πr^{4}_{s}}[/itex])[itex]dM[/itex] = [itex]\frac{GM^{2}_{s}}{8πr^{4}_{s}}[/itex]

hence

[itex]P_{c}-P_{s}[/itex]>[itex]\frac{GM^{2}_{s}}{8πr^{4}_{s}}[/itex]

and by approximating that the pressure at the surface to be zero ([itex]P_{s}=0[/itex])
we get:

[itex]P_{c}[/itex]>[itex]\frac{GM^{2}_{s}}{8πr^{4}_{s}}[/itex]


mfb said:
you need some relation between size (like the radius r in your formula?) and pressure in the center, and then let the pressure in the center be 40MPa.

So are you saying I should do:

[itex]40MPa[/itex]>[itex]\frac{GM^{2}_{s}}{8πr^{4}_{s}}[/itex]?

I figure I have to solve for r and then obtain the diameter from there but I am stuck because I am not given the mass... (or do I use a mass of an icy minor planet like Ceres?)
 
Last edited:
Your formula differs from the one in the first post now.

You know the density of ice, this gives the relation radius<->mass,
 
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